refinishing a d25...

[so_ber]

hi! first off, i'd like to know if guild used a darker stain in 77 on the D25Ms than other years. Most of the pics i've seen of that year the guitar looks quite dark, and mine is no exception. too dark actually for my tastes, and as a picky perfectionist, i'd like to rectify the situation. so, i was just wondering what kind of skills and effort it'd take to refinish my 77 D25? (or have it done professionally, though here in japan i'm sure the cost would be ridiculous....) thanks for any info/input!

 

[Graham]

Pics would help so_ber, could be a mahogany stain stain thing.

 

[cjd-player]

The hardest parts will be regluing the bridge (you'll need to remove it to get a nice refinish around the bridge area), working around the fingerboard extension, and working the neck-to-body joint. (I refinished a guitar that had a bolt-on neck, so I only had the bridge to deal with.)

Other than that it's just a lot of scraping and sanding, lots of sanding, lots of sanding, lots of sanding, then applying and sanding and buffing the finish.

Also, there is a lot of sanding involved. :mrgreen:

 

[silverfox103]

The last thing I would do, is remove the bridge. That just doesn't make sense. If you take your time and be careful you will have good results.

Tom C.

 

[killdeer43]

The last thing I would do, is remove the bridge. That just doesn't make sense. If you take your time and be careful you will have good results.

Tom C.

I agree with Tom.
If the bridge is nice and stable, work around it as best you can. :wink:

And welcome, to a Tokyo Guilder!

Joe

 

[cjd-player]

The last thing I would do, is remove the bridge. That just doesn't make sense. If you take your time and be careful you will have good results.

Tom C.

If the top is stained, you'll be needing to remove several thousandths of an inch of wood (likely 5 to 10) to get below the stained surface. I can't imagine being able to do that neatly around the bridge, essentially leaving the bridge on a raised island, without it looking like cousin Earl did the job while sittin' on his fishin' boat.

If it was just the surface finish it would be a different story, but the stained wood will have to go.

 

[Guild Dawg]

My recommendation would be to leave it alone and buy a guitar with a finish closer to what you desire.

How do they say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" in Japanese? :wink:

 

[kokotele]

The perfectionist in you should make you want to make sure the guitar is as original as possible, rather than change it. I'd never recommend a refinish on a guitar that didn't absolutely need it. If it's just the case of not liking the color, you're better off selling yours and buying one you like better. A refinish on an acoustic often changes the tone, and that's something you'll want to think carefully about before proceeding.

The color of yours could just be a function of the wood (wood from some trees is darker than wood from other trees), or it could be due to the finish aging over time.

Regardless of the cause of your dark looking guitar, your first refinishing job should not be on a project like this. There is a big learning curve to finishing and refinishing, and you are absolutely guaranteed to make mistakes that may or may not be fixable. Do two or three finish jobs on guitars you don't care about before tackling a project like this.

Check out the Guitar Refinishing forums at http://www.reranch.com/reranch, and make sure to read the 101 on finishing there.

 

[Graham]

...without it looking like cousin Earl did the job while sittin' on his fishin' boat.

Are you saying that Earl is incompetent or fishing boats don't make good repair facilities?

 

[cjd-player]

...without it looking like cousin Earl did the job while sittin' on his fishin' boat.

Are you saying that Earl is incompetent or fishing boats don't make good repair facilities?

Sorry, I didn't mean YOUR cousin Earl.


I meant MY cousin Earl.

Yes, boats can be problematic.

:shock:

 

[dane]

A refinish on an acoustic often changes the tone, and that's something you'll want to think carefully about before proceeding.

True statement. Some guitar manufacturers will check the thickness of a finish on every guitar to make sure it’s within spec for tone reasons.

 

[Dadaist]

My recommendation would be to leave it alone and buy a guitar with a finish closer to what you desire.

How do they say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" in Japanese? :wink:

BTW....welcome to LTG!

I'm with Guild Dawg.....if you can afford it, (I'm aware that Guilds are hyper-expensive in Japan.) buy another Guild that might meet your cosmetic expectations. A nice Jumbo or F-40 would be a good stablemate for that D25.

If nothing else, it will be an excuse to research other Guilds and meet interesting people. When you look at the roster of the folks here on LTG, most of them own more than a few guitars.

David

 

[evenkeel]

I'm going to chime in with the "Do Nothing" crowd. Assuming the wood was stained before a finish coat (s) was applied, to get all the stain out is going to involve a lot of sanding and scraping. If the wood was especially "thirsty" then the stain may be absorbed deep into the wood making it very hard to get an even appearance.Plus, the net result may well have an affect on the tone/sound of the guitar. The process to restain and/or apply a lacquer finish is a pretty ambitious undertaking. Finally, if you are bound and determined to go the re-fin route I'd suggest you go get a bunch of pieces of spruce to experiment with first. Then get a beater guitar to learn the finer points of refin work. You do not want to go thru a learning curve on a nice D-25.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

...Most of the pics i've seen of that year the guitar looks quite dark, and mine is no exception. too dark actually for my tastes, and as a picky perfectionist, i'd like to rectify the situation. so, i was just wondering what kind of skills and effort it'd take to refinish my 77 D25? (or have it done professionally, though here in japan i'm sure the cost would be ridiculous....)

so_ber,

While it is true there are only so many vintage D25s that remain, and there is a certain value to be placed on keeping them original, we are, after all, discussing *your* guitar and your own preferences. So, proceeding with your thought of wanting to lighten the dark finish...

My guess is that the tint is in the finish, not the wood. If that is the case, there is likely a reason behind why your guitar is tinted dark. It is highly probable there are aesthetic imperfections in the tonewoods that are being masked by the tint. As long as you are OK with potentially revealing those, proceed. Note that what someone may have pulled in a quality control check as less than desirable several years ago may be more desirable than what sneaks through today. Also, some dark-tinted, sunburst, and even black guitars have had perfectly pleasing grain patterns hidden under that mask, but that is the exception, not the rule.

Refinishing with nitro-cellulose (I am assuming you would want to use nitro) is a definite skill-set typically requiring no small investment in equipment and environment. If you want to try it yourself, I think it only fitting that you submit before and after photos, along with a step-by-step primer of how you did it. That way, if you destroy the instrument, you will have provided well-documented ammunition for future discussions. Then again, if it turns out great, well...

Otherwise, you may wish to inquire locally. I would think you could locate a well-equipped shop with skilled artisans who could do a great job. At least you could get a quote. A 'pro' strip and refinish here in the States can easily go for $500 or $600.

Christopher

 

[adorshki]

A refinish on an acoustic often changes the tone, and that's something you'll want to think carefully about before proceeding..

+10!!!

The color of yours could just be a function of the wood (wood from some trees is darker than wood from other trees), or it could be due to the finish aging over time. .

And if you ever go to sell it you will have viritually obliterated much of its value.

 

[adorshki]

. If you want to try it yourself, I think it only fitting that you submit before and after photos, along with a step-by-step primer of how you did it. That way, if you destroy the instrument, you will have provided well-documented ammunition for future discussions. Christopher

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[wontox]

Tom C.[/quote]
If the top is stained, you'll be needing to remove several thousandths of an inch of wood (likely 5 to 10) to get below the stained surface.
If it was just the surface finish it would be a different story, but the stained wood will have to go.[/quote].

It's been my experience with my 70' D 40 and another old mahogany beat-to-hell nitro guitar I refinished, that the stain was in the laquer...everything came off with acetone or water-soluble paint remover. If you've never applied clear finishes before, though, this might not be a good place to start. If you can apply laquer or varnish without runs, and have some patience, you can do this.

Wontox

 

[so_ber]

wow, thank you all so much for the replies, you've helped me reach my decision: sell this one and buy a different one. i don't really have the time or experience to refinish this one (let alone buy beater guitars to practice on!). and if it'll cost $500-600 in the US to professionally refinish it, who knows what it'd cost here!!! for that price i should just buy another one! (i asked one more question at the bottom of this post...)

and to respond to some of the comments/remarks:
i don't think they have the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" here. in fact, it seems they might have the opposite one--if it ain't broke, FIX IT!!! they're always tearing down some 'old' building (20-25 years old) and constructing a new one in it's place, renovating renovations and trashing perfectly good cars (15 years old and less that, by american standards at least, are sound and roadworthy)!

yeah, the wood underneath might not be perfect. when i look at the top at certain angles it seems there are some dark spots or areas that seem a little uneven.

the prices of guilds--actually anything american made and vintage--are high here. and they are somewhat hard to find, so even higher. i actually had this guitar sent from the US, and it was still cheaper than it would have been here--that is if i could even find a D25! (i saw a pretty beat up D4 here at a guitar store, and they were asking close to a grand for it) the good thing is that right now the yen is strong/usd weak, so i can buy the guitar in the US and have it sent here. and japan doesn't have a duty tax on musical instruments, or sales tax on used items (though new items they'll hit you up for 5% of the cost). i should be able to sell mine for what i paid for it after shipping--hopefully....

as for keeping this one and getting another guitar (such as a jumbo, etc), i really can't behave in such a way, haha! actually, i'm a drummer first, but have always made songs, and so now i'm trying to get into singer/songwriter stuff more (since it's hard to play drums here). and besides the fact that i can't afford more than one guitar, the size of my "mansion" (as they call it) won't allow it either. (just think an airplane-sized bathroom, dorm room fridge, washing machine and sink crammed into a space that is the size of a small bedroom.... that's my apartment! though it comes with regular sized rent....)

now, one more question. being that i'm not that familiar with guitars, how difficult is it to swap out the piezo pickup in my guitar to the new one if/when i get it? and is it possible to put the original strap pin back in where the pickup has been removed? i've read the hole has to be enlarged when installing the pickup....

oh, and i'll try to post some pics, as soon as i figure out how!!!

thanks again, y'all! great to be here in the friendly knowledge pool even though i'm across a big ocean!!!

 

[killdeer43]

oh, and i'll try to post some pics, as soon as i figure out how!!!

Try this link...

http://www.letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5522&p=53311&hilit=imageshack#p53311

Cheers,
Joe

 

[so_ber]

Cool, let's see if this works.....

inside my room:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1695/myd25inside.jpg

in my room, in the case (note how the guitar practically matches the case lining):
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/7641/myd25incase.jpg

an over exposed pic to see the dark spots in the wood (?) or stain (??), between the pickguard and the strap pin:
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4347/myd25mlight.jpg

outside on my balcony, on an overcast day:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2267 ... utside.jpg