Question about US live concerts

[Nuuska]

Howdy

I just heard that in US it is required, that if a band uses pre-recorded music as part of the show, they must tell that in advance.

Is this fake news?
Or is it really like that?

Am watching a discussion, where one member said, that a technician of Rammstein had told him the show was playback . . .

Another "could it really be?"

 

[fronobulax]

I'm gonna say no.

 

[7GuildsandanSG]

Milli Vanilli comes to mind

 

[Midnight Toker]

No, it is not required. Sampling is commonplace. (And not just in rap) Any band that has "special effects" in their recorded music, like Pink Floyd going back to the early mid 70's, used prerecorded sounds in their live concerts. The opening of Money, Sheep, lots of tunes in The Wall, etc. all included prerecorded sounds. No one needed to be told there were no live sheep baaahing into microphones on stage.

 

[Guildedagain]

What was once scandalous has become commonplace.

 

[Nuuska]

Of course it is obvious, that if a G-B-Dr - trio on stage has string orchestra backing, it is pre-recorded.
But what if the trio, too , is prerecorded and whole show is just playback ?
Including vocal tracks.

Years ago there was this british duo, who came to gig w tape. At soundcheck they gave me the tape for back-up music - we set the monitors to their liking and run through few songs. They sang really good. After soundcheck they wanted to have the cassette - even though there was less than hour for showtime and I remained at mixer. Shortly before the show they handed me the cassette and show started. After a while I noticed, that the vocal channels meters were blinking only between songs. Started to wonder - put headphones on - hit PFL-button - and the scam was revealed. They had switched the cassette. They were not singing at all in front of audience.

I felt betrayed and dirty - even though I got paid - watching audience go wild believing their idols were in front of them singing just for them.

Now ABBA is putting up this avatar-show - but that is completely different. Everybody who can and will read should know, that they are not going to see ABBA-live, but ABBA avatar show.

 

[Midnight Toker]

What was once scandalous has become commonplace.

Prerecorded use on stage could have easily gone very wrong during the days of analog. Had the Beatles continued to tour after 66, they would have either had to have 25 people on stage, or use pre taped playback. I doubt anyone would have seen it in a negative light had they gone the way of prerecorded sounds. Macca does it right now! Once we were in the days of unlimited digital tracks, triggered samples were the industry norm. It was inevitable that no band recording 48-64 (if not more) full tracks on records could faithfully recreate their recorded music without some "help". The only thing that has ever been scandalous is when artists are found to be lip-syncing to prerecorded tracks. And IMO, that's more the fault of music videos and the artists that have lavish choreographed dance routines on stage. Ever try singing while doing a full fledged aerobics workout? Impossible! The only scandal to me were people gullible enough to think a person can sing in perfect pitch and full breath under that sort of physical duress. Heck, my brother regularly calls me while taking his dog for a walk and he's gasping for air just while talking!! I bet if audiences were asked, "for your $150 concert ticket, would you rather see the performer stand motionless at the edge of the stage while singing a dance number, or see them perform that well known dance routine from the video while backup singers and prerecorded tapes provide the bulk of what you hear?", I'd wager most would chose the latter. Milli Vanilli? Yes, that was a travesty. Turned out they didn't even sing on the damn record! For most of the rest, it's basically a requirement to have outside help just to put on a decent show. I'm ok with it. It's just entertainment. A show. An escape. Now if it's just a stripped down rock/blues/jazz band that's just focused on actually performing the music....there's absolutely no need. ( and that's where my musical heart is mostly drawn to...but I do "get" the need for others to require it)

 

[Midnight Toker]

Of course it is obvious, that if a G-B-Dr - trio on stage has string orchestra backing, it is pre-recorded.
But what if the trio, too , is prerecorded and whole show is just playback ?
Including vocal tracks.

Years ago there was this british duo, who came to gig w tape. At soundcheck they gave me the tape for back-up music - we set the monitors to their liking and run through few songs. They sang really good. After soundcheck they wanted to have the cassette - even though there was less than hour for showtime and I remained at mixer. Shortly before the show they handed me the cassette and show started. After a while I noticed, that the vocal channels meters were blinking only between songs. Started to wonder - put headphones on - hit PFL-button - and the scam was revealed. They had switched the cassette. They were not singing at all in front of audience.

I felt betrayed and dirty - even though I got paid - watching audience go wild believing their idols were in front of them singing just for them.

Now ABBA is putting up this avatar-show - but that is completely different. Everybody who can and will read should know, that they are not going to see ABBA-live, but ABBA avatar show.

Yikes!!! I think I may have been just crazy enough to press my finger on the tape machine's pinch roller to see if these charlatans can also lip sync in 1/2 time!

 

[Nuuska]

What a bummer I was so honest in delivering what I was paid for - with any luck the tape itself could've been made culprit

 

[Nuuska]

I started to search in internet and came to conclusion, that it was The London Boys. I made some questions about it on local forums and will confim.

 

[twocorgis]

I think that The Who has been using backing tracks for years in their shows, even back in the analog days. It would have been pretty impossible to play a lot of their stuff live otherwise, given that they're just G-B-D and a lead singer.

 

[chazmo]

Nuuska, are you asking about backing tracks, like Sandy was mentioning, or are you talking about entirely playback with the musicians on stage just faking it? Is the Rammstein thing about just faking it onstage?

If I went to a concert and anyone on the stage was faking it, I'd be pretty upset. Backing tracks or fill-in stuff, no biggie.

 

[Teleguy61]

I believe many acts, and not even large ensembles, use partial backing tracks that some of the
band play along with.
I would be unable to not feel cheated.
I want to see, and have paid to see, real people playing real tunes on real instruments, live.
If I wanted recorded music I would put on a cd or watch youtube.

 

[Nuuska]

Nuuska, are you asking about backing tracks, like Sandy was mentioning, or are you talking about entirely playback with the musicians on stage just faking it? Is the Rammstein thing about just faking it onstage?

If I went to a concert and anyone on the stage was faking it, I'd be pretty upset. Backing tracks or fill-in stuff, no biggie.

My question is about faking. Backing tracks, that are obvious, because there are no persons - like a choir or string ensemble - are OK - while it is easy to anybody understand.

But if the lead singers voice comes off computer . . .


In that discussion - finnish program if you will . . . - they contemplated the U2 tour that had three setups at same time - while playing on one the next was built and previous was being torn down. Naturally such tour has extremely high budget - and if one day the singer - or anybody else of that huge MACHINE can not do their part at full - there is always the backing track - just open different channel on FOH-mixer. Naturally drummer plays with click, that's controlling tempo . . .

 

[chazmo]

Good stuff. I presume the situation is the same here.

 

[Rocky]

What a bummer I was so honest in delivering what I was paid for - with any luck the tape itself could've been made culprit

It would have been a real shame if the player happened to accidentally eat the tape.

 

[fronobulax]

A lot of this centers around expectations and how many lawyers are involved.

If I buy a ticket to a live performance I expect the vast majority of what I hear to be "live", not prerecorded. If my lawyer agrees that I was sold a ticket to a live performance then there are grounds for complaint and remediation if large portions were prerecorded and then just played back. But if my ticket was for something else ("entertainment" or perhaps an "appearance" by someone) I need to manage my own expectations.

In the classical world this is not really an issue. The presence of a sound system is less likely and thus introducing a recording would be an expectation.

I think there is a difference between a musician and an entertainer. The former entertains by playing their instrument. But the latter entertains by (say) singing and dancing. So it can be acceptable that some of the singing was assisted by recordings while the dancing was real exertion.

To the original question, I do not think there is a requirement that audiences be informed of the use of pre-recorded material in the us. Such a requirement would require laws and regulation and a promoter or venue can avoid the issue by selling a ticket to an appearance or entertainment and not a "live performance". The audience may get upset but they got what they paid for if they read and understood the fine print.

 

[lungimsam]

I think the only live performance rules (whatever they may be) I have ever perceived in actual use is the posting of song writer’s name and copyright info on screen if someone performs a song written by someone else. All that ASCAP type rules n stuff, I guess.

Once I asked Michael Hedges if I could play his stuff when I played live and he was like “Sure, you see me doing Beatles songs and stuff.”. And that was in the days where there were no screens in club venues and in classical performance venues and no one posted anything.

That would be funny to see an ASCAP guy go onstage and make Segovia stop playing until they got a sign up.

 

[crank]

ASCAP guys go after the venue owners.

We saw a great singer , Erica Falls, yesterday and her band was just 3 guys: drums, bass guitar. They were really great. Drummer on some songs would play to a click and was controlling some tracks that had some background vocals. No mention was made.

 

[Westerly Wood]

I typically just blame it on the rain...