Playability of my D50 and Wishing ALL the LTGers a Very Merry Christmas and ...

[Yoko Oh No]

...a Very Musical New Year!

So I've been wondering. I love my D 50 and wouldn't sell or trade it. The tone is wonderful, and it's become "mine"...I think you all know what that means once you've played a guitar for a very long period.

So, here's my question: Why is my cheap, $60, repaired head stock Yamaha easier to play than the D 50? It's simply effortless to play the Yamaha, but the D 50 requires much more concentration to properly fret each string. The action is fine on the D 50. There's a lot of saddle left, and I seasonally adjust the truss rod to bring the action to a comfortable position. The D 50 has never been worked on. The bridge is flat, the frets are what you'd expect for a 22 year old guitar. If I didn't have the Yamaha I wouldn't notice the extra effort required. Could it be that the Yamaha has a thicker, wider neck?

Perhaps a trip to a luthier to confer is in order...I'm in Boston, so can any local LTGer's recommend someone who I might consider?

Merry Christmas...I'm sure Santa won't disappoint!

 

[dapmdave]

...a Very Musical New Year!

So I've been wondering. I love my D 50 and wouldn't sell or trade it. The tone is wonderful, and it's become "mine"...I think you all know what that means once you've played a guitar for a very long period.

So, here's my question: Why is my cheap, $60, repaired head stock Yamaha easier to play than the D 50? It's simply effortless to play the Yamaha, but the D 50 requires much more concentration to properly fret each string. The action is fine on the D 50. There's a lot of saddle left, and I seasonally adjust the truss rod to bring the action to a comfortable position. The D 50 has never been worked on. The bridge is flat, the frets are what you'd expect for a 22 year old guitar. If I didn't have the Yamaha I wouldn't notice the extra effort required. Could it be that the Yamaha has a thicker, wider neck?

Perhaps a trip to a luthier to confer is in order...I'm in Boston, so can any local LTGer's recommend someone who I might consider?

Merry Christmas...I'm sure Santa won't disappoint!

You could easily determine the neck size of the guitars with a ruler. But you could cut to the chase and just take BOTH guitars to your luthier (when you find one) and tell him or her to just make the D-50 play as much like the Yamaha as possible.

And a Merry Christmas back atcha!

 

[killdeer43]

Welcome back and Merry Christmas, stranger.
Dave's advice is as good as anything I can offer so I'll just bow out and make room for others to chime in.
Good luck with your D50....wish I still had my '89, but that's another story for another thread. :emptiness:

Cheers,
Joe

 

[walrus]

Happy Christmas, Yoko!

walrus

 

[Westerly Wood]

all i know is my D25BR was really brutal to play for years, so much that i generally kept it one full step down.
then i got a neck reset, but it was a rush job, my fault, corrected some problems but still not ideal playability.
so i got it set up properly and it is awesome! i am back in standard tuning, she sounds great, and i am bemused that something simple as a correct setup makes all the difference.
i would suggest one of those.

 

[GardMan]

A couple things come to mind...
First, does you D-50 play any easier when capoed? If it does, I would ask your luthier/tech to check the action at the nut. A couple thousandths of an inch in the nut slots can make a huge difference in the ease of fretting.

Next, what are the nut widths on the two guitars? The D-50 should be 1-11/16", but what is the Yamahas? Different nut widths can affect how the guitar feels to your fretting hand... I have played Guild 1-11/16" necks for >40 years, but for the last two years have been playing the 1-3/4" necks of my DVs, and now find that the narrow necks require more precise placement of my fingers.

You can't really change the nut widths, but... what is the string spacing on the two guitars, E to e? Most of my Guilds now have string spacing of 36.5 - 37mm measured E to e (center of strings). My D-50 was closer to 35.5mm when I bought it... but has now been widened to 36.5. Tho' a 1 mm difference doesn't seem like much when divided between he 6 strings, it made a world of difference in playability for me. If the D-50 strings are more closely spaced, ask you luthier/tech if there is sufficient neck width to spread the strings bit... even 0.5 mm might make a difference. Would require a new nut, but that isn't an expensive proposition (<$50?).

Lastly, the neck profile can certainly affect how the guitar feels in your hands. My D-50 has a rather chunky profile for its 1-11/16" width... its narrow, but thicker front to back than any other 1-11/16" Guild neck I have played. It noticeably changes the angle my fingers make when fretting the strings. The neck on my DV-73 is thicker front to back, but also wider... and I find it more comfortable (and easier) to play.

Just some things to look at... You can't really change the nut width or neck profile, but might find adjusting the string spacing and nut action can make your D-50 "easier" to play.

Good luck, and Happy Holidays!

 

[davismanLV]

In thinking about this my mind went immediately to Dave's thoughts about the string height at the nut. Such a tiny increment can make such a huge difference. Is it easier to play higher up the neck? If cowboy chords are more difficult than ones further up the neck, that may indicate the string height at the nut is a problem. I've also noticed that on guitars with lower frets (maybe they've had a fret dressing to level them) you have to fret much more carefully. My Taylor is just plain easier to play than my other guitars. I attribute that to 1 3/4 nut vs. 1 11/16ths, neck profile, and short scale vs. long scale. Any 1 by itself may not make a huge difference but when you put all three of those things together, it just seems to work better for me. So, as Dave said, check the string spacing and nut width and the neck profile. Another thing would be to see what the scale length is. Short scale will have less string tension and make strings easier to fret. We've got enough members in your neck of the woods that someone should come up with a decent lutheir. :encouragement:

Merry Christmas, Alan!!

 

[griehund]

My D40 is much more difficult to play than "El Kabong". The most obvious reason for me is the 13s on the D40 and the 12s on the Yamaha. However I also feel like the neck on the Yammie is a smigeon flatter and a smidgeon wider. I have never measured so I'm just going by feel. Also the yammie is an F shape and the neck feels a little shorter which might also affect the string tension. I can thumb hook a 9 chord on the D40 with no problem but it tends to be a struggle on the Yammie. I never gave the difference between the two much thought. Just kind of accepted they are different. Anytime I can avoid a deep thought process I take advantage.

 

[gjmalcyon]

I have sort of the same thing going on with my Yamaha FG-110 (easier to finger clearly articulated chords) and every other guitar I own, but I ascribe it to a form of muscle memory. The Yamaha was my first - and only - guitar for the first 35 years or so of my guitar-playing life. That particular combination of neck width, fret height, nut width, string spacing, and string height is the one my fingers have spent the most time with.

As I play the Guilds more and the Yamaha less, the difference is evaporating.

 

[adorshki]

The action is fine on the D 50. There's a lot of saddle left, and I seasonally adjust the truss rod to bring the action to a comfortable position. The D 50 has never been worked on. The bridge is flat, the frets are what you'd expect for a 22 year old guitar.

At first I would have agreed with the guys who went with neck profile, because I experienced the same thing with my D40, it "felt" harder to play than the D25 and I couldn't figure out why until I noticed it had a thicker neck than the 2 Westerlys and everything else was the same.
Now, though, I'm inclined to go along with the guys who mention nut action and fret height.
If it's never been worked on I assume they're fairly well notched.
That in itself creates the need for extra effort to fret cleanly.
Overall it's probably a little bit of everything, but I'll take a wild guess your Yamaha has a lower action at the nut and even overall, than the D50, just to start.
Another potential is that if the Yamaha has a shorter scale (string length), the strings have less tension at pitch, so would be easier to play/fret. I don't know what the scale is on those Yamahas, but if it's less than 25-5/8", it's shorter than the D50..
Edit: Apologies to Tom, I missed that he covered scale length already..but I second the idea that several factors are probably combining to produce the overall effect, on a 22 year old guitar that's "never been worked on".

 

[Bikerdoc]

"Muscle Memory"? Geesh!!! Am I going have trouble with that toooo? Short-term is difficult enough. :distracted:

 

[adorshki]

"Muscle Memory"? Geesh!!! Am I going have trouble with that toooo? Short-term is difficult enough. :distracted:

There is something to be said for not being able to remember how good your muscles used to look.