Pins and saddle change on a new D-40 ??

[laocmo]

Anyone ever try changing out the bone pins and saddles that come with the Tacoma built Guild dreadnoughts? Had an hour of free time yesterday and as a lark replaced the standard bone bridge items on my '07 D-40 with plain old Martin standard saddle (Micarta?) and ebony pins. If my ears are not fooling me, I noticed a distinct difference. The guitar is louder and the notes ring brighter with the cheap stuff. Redid the original bone, and although it sounds great it is not as loud and bright as before. I always thought bone was the ultimate in sound improvement for a guitar.
It's a pita to try all the possible combinations, bone, ivory, plastic, Corian, Micarta, etc. Any advice?

Thanks

 

[wright1]

Hi Larry, Micarta,Corian and all good synthetics are far from cheap but are usually cheaper than bone. The change in sound using bone pins is debatable but bone being a 'natural' product can be variable and if the bone saddle fitted has some sort of hidden flaw that may effect the sound. Good synthetic saddles don't have(or shouldn't have) any hidden flaws and being of perfect structure should transmit the sound evenly. It could be that your perception of a better sound is that the 'cheap stuff' is letting more vibration of all frequencies transmit to the top where the bone may be more selective. I fit Graphtech saddles in all my instruments and as long as the saddle bottom is flat and the slot bottom is flat too I enjoy good even tone each time because I know each piece is going to be the same and is harder and brighter sounding than most bone. Hey,if it works don't knock it. Use what sounds best for you and your guitar.Manufacturers like Martin use synthetics for just the same reason. They know that each saddle will sound the same every time and it eliminates a 'bad' saddle made from a unpredictable piece of bone. It is one less thing to worry about. Bad enough trying to make sure that the wood has no flaws in it!
All the best,Steve.

 

[jwsamuel]

Manufacturers like Martin use synthetics for just the same reason. They know that each saddle will sound the same every time and it eliminates a 'bad' saddle made from a unpredictable piece of bone.

Actually, Martin uses bone nuts and saddles in every guitar in the Standard series and up.

Jim

 

[wright1]

Jim, Yes Martin do currently fit bone nuts and saddles to most of their instruments but they do still fit Tusq saddles to many models, mostly customs eg OMJM John Mayer,Trey Anastasio custom,Steve Miller 000C, OMC-41 Richie Sambora, Elliot Easton custom etc.
Larry said he took a Martin synthetic saddle and put it in his Guild. I just responded to that. I am pretty sure that at one time Martin fitted synthetic saddles to all it's line but with everybody wanting vintage specs and believing bone is a holy grail of tone they are just giving their customers what they want.
Boy! you colonials really get shookup over a piece of bone! First you complain about the cost of tea........... :lol:

 

[jwsamuel]

Larry said he took a Martin synthetic saddle and put it in his Guild. I just responded to that. I am pretty sure that at one time Martin fitted synthetic saddles to all it's line but with everybody wanting vintage specs and believing bone is a holy grail of tone they are just giving their customers what they want.

They made the switch in 2004. I could never really hear any difference.

Jim

 

[wa3jpg]

Interesting. I have the Guild DV-4 (mahogany, sitka) and the bone saddle/nut. However, I just replaced the plastic pins with Ebony pins and I think I hear a nice mellowing, warming of the overall tone. Maybe I'll get a tusq saddle just to try out on it. I've certainly found some differences in various saddle materials in my fiddling around here. Go with what you like!

Clark

 

[Cuda]

I like the way a Graph Tech Tusq Saddle sounds when you drop it on the table or floor. Nice ring to it unlike my stock saddle. I'm not sure if I have bone or plastic, but that is not what I want to talk about.
Graph Tech says that their saddles do not have the inconsistencies of bone for instance. I noticed that there are three holes in the bottom of the saddle from their manufacturing process. My stock saddle is completely solid and while there might be non-uniformity in it, aren't those voids in the graph tech saddles huge inconistencies comparatively.

 

[wright1]

Cuda, The Graphtech saddles are blanks and need to be fitted to each instrument. I believe that they are a little over sized and you need to 'finish' them so the manufacturing marks will be removed in that process. They are not a drop-in from new fit usually but the marks are just from the former and should not affect the structure of the material. It is clear that a lot of makers fit these saddles to instruments with under saddle pickups and most if not all of the Martin models I quoted as having synthetic saddles have such a pickup.It seems they think the frequency transmission is better for the pickup. I just don't really understand why this shouldn't be a factor without a saddle pickup? Surely you want to hear all of the sound that your guitar can produce pickup or no? I like the way a Tusq saddle dances when you drop it too!

 

[Cuda]

Thanks wright. I understand about finishing of course, but you can see what I'm talking about in the attached picture. The three holes in the bottom. Their depth is about 3/4 of the saddle height, so they won't be filed away.

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Hemi (cuda),

What is the saddle in your pic made of?

hf

 

[taabru45]

I was wondering if anyone ever customized a Jade saddle. It is a rock hard mineral... :lol: or glass though it might wear a bit too. Really curious about Jade. Steffan

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

I think there's a dancer around here named Jade Saddle.

 

[taabru45]

I think there's a dancer around heer named Jade Saddle.

She must hate those forms that put your last name 1st. Steffan

 

[wright1]

Cuda, I have not seen that type of saddle before. Ditto what is it? I would certainly NOT fit a saddle of that type to any decent instrument. It would have to be a cheap plastic surely? Tusq saddles are solid through. Anything with those chambers 3/4 of the way in must surely have a effect on sound so I can understand why you questioned fitting that type of saddle. Really interested to know what it is so we can all avoid it!!

 

[Cuda]

It's TUSQ, but not a blank. www.graphtech.com. I ordered direct from graph tech guitar labs. I don't have the part number but I think they advertise it as Martin style. The dimensions were close so I got a preshaped one instead of a blank. I haven't seen their blanks before so I don't know if they have the holes. Those holes/slots are only about halfway deep actually.

-Mike

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Put on some cheap sunglasses, walk into an imaginary 7-11, and say, "I'm just lookin' for some tusq."

 

[wright1]

Mike, You are correct! I have just gone through all my Tusq spares and all the Martin pre-shaped I have have those holes. Even though I have them I have never fitted one so never noticed. I usually make all my saddles from blanks which don't have the holes.I keep a few pre-shaped for emergencies. It is interesting to note that the B compensated Gibson pre-shaped do not have the holes. I am sorry to have cast any doubt. I would not feel happy about fitting a saddle with those holes in it and am glad that I haven't. I guess a good amount of saddle would be cut off in the height adjustment but I am sure it would leave some of the hole still there. I will drop Graphtech a e-mail and find out if there is any good reason why these saddles are made this way. I am sure they will tell me it makes no difference to the sound but then they would!
Thanks for making me aware of this.All the best Steve.

 

[Cuda]

thanks

 

[wright1]

Mike, Heard back from Graphtech. Yes they think that it makes no difference and the holes are part of the manufactuing process although they didin't explain why the holes do not appear on the Gibson blanks. They say the holes only intrude by 2mm.Mmm? The saddle is exactly the same as they supply to Martin so these things are fitted at the factory and must be in service in hundreds of Martins.