pick up help with a 512

[Ipedl2]

I have a 512 and want to install a pick up. Leaning towards an under the saddle version. Volume and tone controls are a slight consideration but I do have a pre-amp already so V/T not a necessity. I'm looking for something to preserve the spectacular tone and reproduce it when amplified. Suggestions? What experience have you all had that you can share?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[chazmo]

Hi,

I got the K&K Pure Western Mini system installed last year on my F-512 and I like the sound. Feedback is always an issue, but I think that's true with any system. If you already have an external pre-amp, all you should need is the basic 3-pickup system -- the transducers glue onto the bridge plate. There is also an on-board pre-amp available, but you can only (easily) adjust gain/volume -- other controls for bass/treble are adjustable but not on stage, if I recall correctly. I have the K&K external pre-amp too, but I have not had to use it.

 

[Metalman]

Iped,

Here for your consideration, is a list of some of the most popular methods used for what seems to be an endless search: miking an acoustic guitar for live performance.

The first ones listed are the most acoustic sounding, and are more prone to feedback. At the end of the list, are those that are more “electric” sounding, and therefore, less likely to feedback in a live situation.

1) External mic on a stand, preferably a large diaphragm studio mic: Sounds the best, will feedback at low volume. Very expensive, not used hardly at all in a live situation.
2) Mounted mic, near the sound hole. Sounds almost as good as live mic, feedback a little less, but useless in a band situation.
3) Mounted mic inside sound hole. Little less acoustic sound, because it is indeed inside the guitar, and there are all kinds of weird sounds in there, but still good. Feedback is minimized by the fact that it is inside guitar, away from loudspeakers. Still useless in band situation. Works well in solo work, coffee house setting.
4) Bridge plate transducer (LR Baggs “I-Beam”, K & K, etc.) sounds warmer, little less acoustic, but still maintains an acoustic identity. Amplifies entire top to get acoustic sound, will still feedback (but less than microphone), but can be controlled by an onboard or outboard E.Q. with a midrange sweep control.
5) Under the saddle transducer (UST): Has less acoustic sound, is getting its sound source from a very small area of guitar: the bridge. Can be used in a band setting, can get loud volume with out feedback. Is probably the most popular method with strict strummers.
6) Magnetic pickup located across the sound hole. Less acoustic sound of all, less feedback prone of all. Makes your acoustic guitar sound like a cheap electric, unless you use a good E.Q. with it to “sweep” the mids out. This pickup will just about sound the same whether it is on a 1941 Martin 000-45, or a Takamine, for the guitar it is used on loses some of its identity. However, it is the best unit to use in a band situation.

The best way to go, is to do what most pros do: a combination of any two of the above.

Good combinations:

One, is a magnetic pickup with a UST, and a blend control.

Two, a magnetic pickup with a bridge plate transducer, either a LR Baggs I-Beam, or K & K pickup.

Three, The IMIX, from LR Baggs, combines the Element (USP) with the I-Beam.

Four, the Fishman Rare Earth Blend, which, as the name suggests, blends a magnetic pickup with a gooseneck mic, inside the guitar. I use it, but the gooseneck mic is almost useless in a live situation. And it doesn’t sound all that great. I use mostly the magnetic pickup, and then dial in just a bit of the mic to get a more “live” sound.

Five, relatively new system by LR Baggs, combines the M1A magnetic pickup with an I-Beam. This would be my choice, over all the above.
Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[cjd-player]

+1 on the K&K.

I think they sound much better than an undersaddle.
I don't have a 512, but I put a K&K in my D-55.


I once had a Taylor 814 with the Fishman Matrix Blender (undersaddle and internal mic).
I installed a K&K and wired it into the Fishman preamp. I also installed switches so I could switch between pickups.

After the K&K was in, I never used the undersadle again 'cause the K&K sounded so much better.

 

[Scratch]

Iped,

Here for your consideration, is a list of some of the most popular methods used for what seems to be an endless search: miking an acoustic guitar for live performance.

The first ones listed are the most acoustic sounding, and are more prone to feedback. At the end of the list, are those that are more “electric” sounding, and therefore, less likely to feedback in a live situation.

1) External mic on a stand, preferably a large diaphragm studio mic: Sounds the best, will feedback at low volume. Very expensive, not used hardly at all in a live situation.
2) Mounted mic, near the sound hole. Sounds almost as good as live mic, feedback a little less, but useless in a band situation.
3) Mounted mic inside sound hole. Little less acoustic sound, because it is indeed inside the guitar, and there are all kinds of weird sounds in there, but still good. Feedback is minimized by the fact that it is inside guitar, away from loudspeakers. Still useless in band situation. Works well in solo work, coffee house setting.
4) Bridge plate transducer (LR Baggs “I-Beam”, K & K, etc.) sounds warmer, little less acoustic, but still maintains an acoustic identity. Amplifies entire top to get acoustic sound, will still feedback (but less than microphone), but can be controlled by an onboard or outboard E.Q. with a midrange sweep control.
5) Under the saddle transducer (UST): Has less acoustic sound, is getting its sound source from a very small area of guitar: the bridge. Can be used in a band setting, can get loud volume with out feedback. Is probably the most popular method with strict strummers.
6) Magnetic pickup located across the sound hole. Less acoustic sound of all, less feedback prone of all. Makes your acoustic guitar sound like a cheap electric, unless you use a good E.Q. with it to “sweep” the mids out. This pickup will just about sound the same whether it is on a 1941 Martin 000-45, or a Takamine, for the guitar it is used on loses some of its identity. However, it is the best unit to use in a band situation.

The best way to go, is to do what most pros do: a combination of any two of the above.

Good combinations:

One, is a magnetic pickup with a UST, and a blend control.

Two, a magnetic pickup with a bridge plate transducer, either a LR Baggs I-Beam, or K & K pickup.

Three, The IMIX, from LR Baggs, combines the Element (USP) with the I-Beam.

Four, the Fishman Rare Earth Blend, which, as the name suggests, blends a magnetic pickup with a gooseneck mic, inside the guitar. I use it, but the gooseneck mic is almost useless in a live situation. And it doesn’t sound all that great. I use mostly the magnetic pickup, and then dial in just a bit of the mic to get a more “live” sound.

Five, relatively new system by LR Baggs, combines the M1A magnetic pickup with an I-Beam. This would be my choice, over all the above.
Hope this helps. Good luck!

Man this is some kinda good info. Thanks!!!

 

[Metalman]

Scratch,

This subject comes up often, so I wrote this essay about a year ago, and kept it in my personnal data base. I just pull it out when needed. Useful info, eager to pass on to anybody who is searching for that elusive live sound.

I am not finished. Still looking for that great acoustic-electric sound. Sometimes it is a compromise. Nothing is going to sound as good as that guitar sittin' on your lap at home, strummin' away, and sounding as sweet as ever.

To try to get THAT sound on stage, well, that is a challenge.

Dennis

 

[Ipedl2]

WOW!! Thank you all very much for the excellent suggestions! My brain hurts. Now I have to get the money to pay for it!!