Oh What Will You Give Me ...

[capnjuan]

Say The Sad Bells of Montcoal ...

Read about Massey :evil:

 

[killdeer43]

Say The Sad Bells of Montcoal ...

Read about Massey :evil:

Thanks for posting these must-visit links, John, especially on the heels of yet another tragedy in Appalachia.
And no one gets the message across quite like Pete!

"Throw the vandals into court," indeed!! :!:

Best,
Joe

 

[capnjuan]

Say The Sad Bells of Montcoal ... Read about Massey :evil:

Thanks for posting these must-visit links, John, especially on the heels of yet another tragedy in Appalachia. And no one gets the message across quite like Pete! "Throw the vandals into court," indeed!! :!: Best, Joe

Hi Joe; ... and it's not just Appalachia. In the mid-80s, I went to work for a very large construction company that had a regional office in the DC area. The Operations Manager was a naturalized Australian. He and I got to be pretty good friends. M___ had worked in the Australian coal mines as a teenager ... he'd lost his father and brother there.

Those people are so vulnerable and ask so little.

 

[killdeer43]

Those people are so vulnerable and ask so little.

So true, so true.
My wife would probably ask that you not get me started! :wink:

Take care,
Joe

 

[Default]

My dad lives in Welch, WV a city built for 40,000 with a population of 4000. There's no work, and the coal mines and lumber companies get away with murder.

 

[john_kidder]

Folk song from Peter Seeger is always the song of the folk. All over the world, people continue to die for others' profits.

Thank you, John.

 

[gilded]

Thanks for the link to Mr. Seeger and the back story on Massey. As always, I appreciate you. HH

 

[capnjuan]

Some of the most bitter disputes in the WV coalfields are not between the miners and the operators ... they're among the miners themselves about how hard to push for more stringent regulation knowing that, in response, the operators will threaten to close the mines. I guess it's this 'Golden Goose' issue and some solid lawyering that explains how Massey can be fined +/- $1 million but pay out only +/- $.10 on the dollar.

The coalfields are de facto National Sacrifice Zones ... and sadly reminiscent of our Canucquois freres creating moonscapes as they dig up their backyard in Alberta to get at the tar sands ... " ... Alberta let your hair hang low ... I'll give you more gold, than your apron can hold ..." I hope Doc would appreciate the irony.

 

[john_kidder]

Greed may be the only real force that unites the planet. Couple it with our western societies with the mantra of "I only need more than the other guy and then i'll be happy", and you get a insatiable desire for energy which can be fed only by massive despoilation and then generates tons and tons of money for, generally, already rich white folks with handy toolkits of expensive lawyers and policians. The modern drive, too, is to employ fewer and fewer people to rip the tops off mountains and dump them in the adjacent valleys, or in Alberta's case, to fill every low-lying area with toxic sludge, or, in Russia, to . . ., or, in Chinaa, to . . ., etc.

And in no case is there concern for people or for the earth except as "factors of production". Just gimme, land, labour and capital, and I'm away to the races. And I'm perfectly free, nay, encouraged, to burn the expendable land and labour just so long as I'm sure to grow the capital. "Safety" is just a cost of doing business, and I'll get away with the minimum required by law, less if i can, while spending more money on lobbying and lawyers to prevent government "interference" than I would have to spend to make worker's lives safer. Bah, humbug.

• I'm the man, the very rich man
  That waters the workers' beer
  And what do i care if it makes them ill
  If it makes them terribly queer
  I've a car and a boat and an aeroplane
  And I waters the workers' beer.

 

[FNG]

Greed may be the only real force that unites the planet. Couple it with our western societies with the mantra of "I only need more than the other guy and then i'll be happy", and you get a insatiable desire for energy which can be fed only by massive despoilaition and tons and tons of money for, generally, already rich white folks with handy toolkits of expensive lawyers and policians. The modern drive, too, is to emly fewer and fewer people to rip the tops off mountains and dump them in the adjacent valleys, or in Alberta's case, to fill every low-lying area with toxic sludge, or, in Russia, to . . ., or, in Chinaa, to . . ., etc.

And in no case is there concern for people or for the earth except as "factors of production". Just gimme, land, labour and capital, and I'm away to the races. And I'm perfectly free, nay, encouraged, to burn the expendable land and labour just so long as I'm sure to grow the capital. Bah, humbug.

Rich white folks run China?

You talk about greed being universal, but then go off on western society and white people. Typing on your computer made in China by explotation of land and labor. It's a complicated problem, and you are a smart fella, but you let your obvious prejudices show through, which tarnishes your message.

It's always been about the "rice bowl".

 

[AlohaJoe]

Having spent time working in deep underground mines (although not coal) I have strong feeling on this subject, and equally strong suspicions as to where Don Blankenship will spend eternity.

The dollar bill is a powerful force,
There are those who will seek it with no remorse.
If you don't believe me just take the time
And go talk to the widows of the Wilberg Mine,
Where the fire is burning still.

From The Fire is Burning Still
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=920886&content=widgets

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Effin: holding a lot of Exxon-Mobil? :wink:

I didn't read JK's remarks as lauding the Chinese for policies that stress human and environmental concerns to the detriment of economic ones. Other than the bugagoo about the US becoming a second-rate economic power to the Chinese, I don't know how the Chinese figure in this. I remember the recession of the 1980s when Japanese investors came here and snapped up real estate; Pebble Beach, Rockefeller Center, and other landmarks and concerns that the US was going to become economically subordinate to Japan. At the time and like the Chinese today, the Japanese were buying a lot of US debt.

Just because the Chinese are prepared to rip their place up to the detriment of their people and environment in their 'Great Leap Forward' is no reason - other than an unquenchable appetite for energy - for the US and our Canucquois broz to continue to rip up our places, is it? It'll be interesting to see how they get that Chinese Bulk Carrier off the Great Barrier Reef ...

900 tons of fuel ... 7 lbs/gal about 250,000 gals of fuel. All those Australian coal miners humping to get the stuff out of the ground only to have their customer screw up one of the country's crown jewels on his way home.

I don't really have any answers either but there's something wrong with that picture.

John

 

[killdeer43]

"The coal company came with the world's largest shovel,
they tortured the timber and they stripped all the land.
They dug for the coal til the land was forsaken,
and wrote it all down as the progress of man."

Paradise
John Prine, 1971

Joe

 

[FNG]

Hi Effin: holding a lot of Exxon-Mobil? :wink:

I didn't read JK's remarks as lauding the Chinese for policies that stress human and environmental concerns to the detriment of economic ones. Other than the bugagoo about the US becoming a second-rate economic power to the Chinese, I don't know how the Chinese figure in this. I remember the recession of the 1980s when Japanese investors came here and snapped up real estate; Pebble Beach, Rockefeller Center, and other landmarks and concerns that the US was going to become economically subordinate to Japan. At the time and like the Chinese today, the Japanese were buying a lot of US debt.

Just because the Chinese are prepared to rip their place up to the detriment of their people and environment in their 'Great Leap Forward' is no reason - other than an unquenchable appetite for energy - for the US and our Canucquois broz to continue to rip up our places, is it? It'll be interesting to see how they get that Chinese Bulk Carrier off the Great Barrier Reef ...

900 tons of fuel ... 7 lbs/gal about 250,000 gals of fuel. All those Australian coal miners humping to get the stuff out of the ground only to have their customer screw up one of the country's crown jewels on his way home.

I don't really have any answers either but there's something wrong with that picture.

John

John...do you own any equity mutual funds?

 

[capnjuan]

... John...do you own any equity mutual funds?

Hi Effin'; no, not any more. In the early/mid '00s, I did trade energy, mining, and heavy machinery stocks ... but I also traded retail, non-ferrous metal, chip, and financial stocks.

 

[AlohaJoe]

And BTW, union mines are MUCH safer, but obviously at a somewhat higher operating cost to the mine owner which is why Don Blankenship opposes unionization even at the cost of human lives.

From 2006:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06119/686005-109.stm

 

[Dr. Spivey]

There's a hole in this mountain and it's dark and it's deep
And God only knows the secrets it keeps
There's a chill in the air only miners can feel
There's ghosts in the tunnels that the company sealed
Steve Earle - The Mountain

 

[killdeer43]

I hope when I die and the ages shall roll,
My body will blacken and turn into coal.
Then I'll look from the door of my heavenly home,
And pity the miner that's diggin' my bones.

Dark As a Dungeon
Merle Travis

Joe

 

[capnjuan]

... John...do you own any equity mutual funds?

Hi Effin'; no, not any more. In the early/mid '00s, I did trade energy, mining, and heavy machinery stocks ... but I also traded retail, non-ferrous metal, chip, and financial stocks.

Just so there isn't any misunderstanding, I didn't get out of equities or stock funds as an act of conscience.

 

[capnjuan]

Coal miners aren't the only 'energy' people at risk: oil rig explosion in the Gulf.