Nick Drake's tone

jp

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To avoid veering in another recent thread, I decided to post a new one. We've heard ample discussion and lore about Nick Drake and the venerable Guild M-20. There's also been mention of this talented young youtuber named Josh Turner who is an amazing all around player and singer.

I wanted to post his video analysis about how Nick Drake gets his acoustic picking tone. I found it both informative and insightful and thought others might as well.
Check it out:



Edit: Not sure if this has been posted before, but I searched and didn't see it.
 
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HeyMikey

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Never heard of Josh before today. Browsing through his vids now. Dang that kid is very talented.
 

HeyMikey

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Interesting opinion about playing with dead nickel bronze strings.
 
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wileypickett

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My take on Josh's take on Drake.

The way a guitar sounds on record rarely reflects what that guitar actually sounds like in person. What microphones were used; the way they were positioned; what the room was like where the guitar was recorded; how the album was mastered in post-production; tuning; position of capo; and the user's playback equipment all play a part in how a guitar sounds.

For instance, I've played guitars that John Fahey and Robbie Basho recorded with and they didn't sound particularly like they do on their records. Also, those same guitars sound different from record to record.

Dead strings: Nick's strings may or may not have been dead (recording "dry" versus with reverb will accentuate the affect of the strings being dead). But taking into account that Nick played in many open tunings, there's no way he "may never have changed his strings." The more retuning you do, they more often you're going to break strings -- it's a fact of life. Nick would have been changing or replacing strings frequently, especially on his steel string guitars. (He played both nylon and steel string guitars.)

I realize that covering Drake is not the same capturing his tone, but in terms of sounding like Nick, Drake fans may want to check out Nine of Swords by guitarist Scott Appel, an album issued in 1988. While there are zillions of clips of people covering Nick on the internet today, this album is the first record I know of where someone tackled Nick's pieces in Nick's tunings. Half the record consists of Drake covers, which Scott learned from previously unissued tapes sent to him by Drake's parents. (At the time there wasn't the obsession with Drake that there has been for the past 30 years or so. No one today would dream of sending out rare Nick Drake tapes to someone who just happened to write them a fan letter!) Appel's album made quite a splash when it came out, getting reviewed in all the usual guitar magazines, which you'd expect, but also in places like *Rolling Stone*.

In terms of Nick's nails being short, they appear quite long in several photos, including the one that accompanies this article:



Photos of Drake playing fingerstyle show his right hand in the classical position: the pinkie is not anchored to the top; the heel of his hand is not resting on the bridge. His hand is loose and right over the soundhole, the approved right hand position for classical guitarists. His left hand position in some photos, however, show his thumb well over the top of the neck, not "konsidered kosher for klassical."

Josh plays Nick's stuff well, no argument, but IMO he's trying to nail down something that can only be speculative at this remove.

Thanks for posting!

Glenn
 
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davismanLV

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Josh plays Nick's stuff well, no argument, but IMO he's trying to nail down something that can only be speculative at this remove.

Thanks for posting!

Glenn
Well thanks for that... he's very talented. Conjecture about what happened almost 50 years ago is a fools errand... but I think his input and conjecture is really great. However, poor, poor Nick died a long time ago. Talented and troubled. Sad but true..... I still like JT playing.. he's soo talented!! (y)
 

jp

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Lots of great points, Glenn. I do agree with you about the impact of recording variables on final audio results and the breakage of constant retuning with dead strings.

I'm primarily an electric player, a clumsy finger picker, and classically untrained. This characterizes me as the worst person to even begin assessing finger plucked acoustic tone. I did, however, find it interesting to hear his opinions about technique and tone. I did appreciate that the player did give his own disclaimer that they were just his own conclusions with no empirical evidence to support them.

I'll see if I can hunt down some Scott Appel recordings to hear the results. I've never heard of him at all.
 

7GuildsandanSG

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My favorite Nick Drake song:
Not sure the guitar but this would sound good on any. Sometimes I wonder if its classical guitar but I still hear a steel string.

Could he have nylon bass strings and steel treble strings? I know that's odd but that's what I'm getting.
I'm guilty of buying an M-120 with Nick Drake in mind. I'm going with the myth. I keep it tuned CGCFCE.
 

Nuuska

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My take on Josh's take on Drake.
. . .
For instance, I've played guitars that John Fahey and Robbie Basho recorded with and they didn't sound particularly like they do on their records. Also, those same guitars sound different from record to record.
. . .
Glenn

Agree 100%

I played Leo Kottke's guitar and did not remotely sound like him.
He played Steinberger bass to Gallien-Krueger transistor amp w Marshall 4x12 cabinet - and was instantly recognized.

Lesson learned : Why should we try sound like someone else? Why not sound us ? ? ?

So many variants - as Glenn pointed out - plus a myriad of others not pointed out yet. ☮️
 

fronobulax

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Agree 100%

I played Leo Kottke's guitar and did not remotely sound like him.
He played Steinberger bass to Gallien-Krueger transistor amp w Marshall 4x12 cabinet - and was instantly recognized.

Lesson learned : Why should we try sound like someone else? Why not sound us ? ? ?

So many variants - as Glenn pointed out - plus a myriad of others not pointed out yet. ☮️

Veer - If I like someone's tone why not try and replicate it, understanding that success is when I like the tone I get and not when I sound like the person I am inspired by.

In the spirit that it isn't the equipment...

mgod got a chance to play Jack Casady's gear in a studio setup. He reports he did not sound like Jack.

Someone reported that Jack was going on a European vacation and wanted a bass but did not want to worry about it. So he bought an Epiphone EB-0, new. People who heard him play testified that he sounded like Jack.
 

Westerly Wood

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Someone reported that Jack was going on a European vacation and wanted a bass but did not want to worry about it. So he bought an Epiphone EB-0, new. People who heard him play testified that he sounded like Jack.
Good stuff Fro! I got a chance to play a Kottke Taylor 6 string once at a guitar shop, and liked the sound of the guitar overall. Whatever I was playing, it was reported by the staff, did not sound like Kottke.
 

Prince of Darkness

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On a similar note, Steve Vai about trying Brian May's equipment :)

"A few years later, when I was playing with Frank Zappa, I walked into the Rainbow bar in Los Angeles and he was standing at the bar. He was so kind and engaging, and he invited me to a Queen rehearsal the next day.
It was so surreal. I looked at his guitar, and I was like, ‘Is that the actual Red Special?’ And he said, ‘Yeah, wanna try it?’ So I picked up that guitar and played through his rig, and to my chagrin, I did not sound like Brian May at all!"
 
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