NGD: NS X175 Manhattan Special

Walter Broes

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That sounds great, Walter!

It's not quite as smurfy looking as the Photoshop promo pictures.

Your demo reminded me that a couple of your licks in "Busy Soon" have driven crazy trying to get right. I never have.
awww, you're too kind. Like I said, I didn't edit that clip, and if I had I would have let a couple of things out where I'm out of time and/or out of tune.
I'm not a big fan of blue guitars (with maybe one or two exceptions), so for my taste, it's still plenty smurfy looking!:LOL:
 

KuuKOO

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I'm going to follow some self-imposed forum etiquette and let GAD post his usual thorough review first before I put in my own anal remarks, because this is his thread, he actually bought the guitar, he does great reviews, etc..., and my take on these things is usually very vintage-guitar/roots-music centered and, like I said...nerdy!:giggle:

Ok OKAY. Will patiently wait for review then get into the weeds. Also roots centred so will try to be patient ;P
 

jp

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Let me put it this way : if this guitar had been available brand new at a price point like this when I was a Rockabilly-obsessed 15 year old, I would have been ecstatic. Now that I'm a blasé/cranky almost-50 year old with two vintage X175's and a vintage DeArmond-equipped Starfire III, I have a couple of extremely specific guitar-nerdy nits to pick, but they're not very interesting.
So in short : it's a heck of a guitar, plays great, sounds great, love the neck profile, still not in love with the color, but that's extremely subjective, and it objectively, it does look stunning in person.

Not an issue at all -it's great right out of the box
Thanks for the rundown. Without playing one myself, I was also going to comment that the Dearmonds didn't seem to have their normal bite and twang as they normally would. I actually really like the finish myself, but I'm partial to blue guitars.

And your forum discretion proves you're a true gentleman ;)
 
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5D3_2852_1600.jpg


Another eye-catcher from Guild!

This one is also a factory second, this time due to a bit of a finish chip up near the nut. I even got to peel the plastic from the pick guard and TRC.

The finish is a sort of satin with a very unique feel, and while the color certainly caught my eye, I had to have it because of the pickups, and I must say I'm kind of impressed so far. While I don't have a true Dynasonic-equipped guitar to compare it to, I do have a set of the real deal (along with all the other variations) from my pickup experiments, and since these NS pickups have quick-release cables I might even use this guitar as a test-bed to compare them all. I don't want to get ahead of myself with another multi-year project that never gets finished, though (SOON!)

We'll see how it shakes out when I take it apart, but just from playing it for a while I can tell you that the middle position sound alone makes me glad I bought it.

now that is a nice guitar.... Not good for me to look to close as I am in selling mode....
 

matsickma

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Walter,
That was the best guitar demo I have ever heard! Outstanding! Guild should pay you for that demonstrate of the tone and style of voices out of that baby!
Even though I have a Westerly X160 after that demo I want buy that model!
I'll contain my urges but wow...
M
 

Walter Broes

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Seeing as I'm also a former rockabilly obsessed almost 50 year old, I'd like to hear the nits.
Okay, as GAD's review has been posted, and he didn't touch on this part, I'll tell you what my major beef is with this guitar. And the Standard X175 models with Franz pickups too, ànd the new X350 guitar.
The bridge pickup doesn't sit where it used to be on the vintage guitar, or even on the 90's Guild X160 Rockabilly, or the limited T-500 guitar out of New Hartford. It's moved towards the neck - quite a bit. It's not subtle if you see the guitar next to a vintage example.

I can totally understand the thinking behind it : a single coil pickup like a Franz or a DeArmond on a vintage Guild can sound spiky, thin, too twangy by modern standards. People want to switch to the lead pickup on their modern gain-knob equipped amp and get a fat power chord like you do on a Les Paul.

But for my taste, and the twangy roots music I play, it ruins the magic of the middle "both pickups on" switch position : the steely über twang that's perfect for Rockabilly, clean-ish arpeggios, Merle Travis style thumbpicking, Chris-Isaak style twangy melancholic tremolo/reverb drenched twang drama gets entirely too woolly and melllow compared to my vintage guitars.

And it's not just the middle switch selection - I actually like how that lead pickup by itself gets a wiry, thin-ish, twangy telecaster-on-steroids tone. sure, for probably 75% of a typical gig I live in the neck pickup/both pickup selections, but for some anger and drama, or indeed the odd in-your-face honky tonk twang excursion or nasty Otis Rush blues lick, that agressively trebly lead pickup is great by itself.

And I totally realize I'm probably in the minority, and the guitar's re-designer and the average modern player will probably shrug and go "it makes the guitar more versatile". But I'd like to see Fender to that to a strat or tele and see how the Fender playing-public reacts. A well seasoned telecaster player will just say "hey, if that lead pickup is too bright, get on the guitar's tone knob : that's what it's for!". Well, that works great for these guitars too.

here's an awkward little amateur collage I made that kind of demonstrates my nerdy nit-picking. left to right is a brand new X175 special, an early 60's X500, and a late 90's Westerly made X160 Rockabilly. In person, it's a LOT less subtle than in the pics.
175special.jpg
 

dhdfoster

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^^^

You are not in the minority. I think that the DeArmond-equipped Electromatics from Gretsch from a few years ago were also like this. Strangely, I believe the one responsible for this is the same person who did an enormous amount of good for both Guild and Gretsch, and co-invented some fancy bracing. :)
 

KuuKOO

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I appreciate the nits. As a tele guy I think I would find it unbearable to not get a spanky tone. That’s said, shouldn’t the pickups themselves accommodate? I played a 2016 63 reissue es-335 with “MHS” pickups and was blown away about the bright tones I could get.

I also think the finish issues and the bracing comments make this a deal killer for me. I miss my old x160.
 

jp

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And it's not just the middle switch selection - I actually like how that lead pickup by itself gets a wiry, thin-ish, twangy telecaster-on-steroids tone. sure, for probably 75% of a typical gig I live in the neck pickup/both pickup selections, but for some anger and drama, or indeed the odd in-your-face honky tonk twang excursion or nasty Otis Rush blues lick, that agressively trebly lead pickup is great by itself.

And I totally realize I'm probably in the minority, and the guitar's re-designer and the average modern player will probably shrug and go "it makes the guitar more versatile". But I'd like to see Fender to that to a strat or tele and see how the Fender playing-public reacts. A well seasoned telecaster player will just say "hey, if that lead pickup is too bright, get on the guitar's tone knob : that's what it's for!". Well, that works great for these guitars too. . . .
Astute observation, Walter. Just like the spiky spank of a Fender with ceramic speakers, I like having that tonal possibility, which is an instrumental part of the Dearmond pickup character. As you point out, it can always be dialed out with the tone knob.
 
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GAD

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Okay, as GAD's review has been posted, and he didn't touch on this part, I'll tell you what my major beef is with this guitar. And the Standard X175 models with Franz pickups too, ànd the new X350 guitar.
The bridge pickup doesn't sit where it used to be on the vintage guitar, or even on the 90's Guild X160 Rockabilly, or the limited T-500 guitar out of New Hartford. It's moved towards the neck - quite a bit. It's not subtle if you see the guitar next to a vintage example.

I can totally understand the thinking behind it : a single coil pickup like a Franz or a DeArmond on a vintage Guild can sound spiky, thin, too twangy by modern standards. People want to switch to the lead pickup on their modern gain-knob equipped amp and get a fat power chord like you do on a Les Paul.

But for my taste, and the twangy roots music I play, it ruins the magic of the middle "both pickups on" switch position : the steely über twang that's perfect for Rockabilly, clean-ish arpeggios, Merle Travis style thumbpicking, Chris-Isaak style twangy melancholic tremolo/reverb drenched twang drama gets entirely too woolly and melllow compared to my vintage guitars.

And it's not just the middle switch selection - I actually like how that lead pickup by itself gets a wiry, thin-ish, twangy telecaster-on-steroids tone. sure, for probably 75% of a typical gig I live in the neck pickup/both pickup selections, but for some anger and drama, or indeed the odd in-your-face honky tonk twang excursion or nasty Otis Rush blues lick, that agressively trebly lead pickup is great by itself.

And I totally realize I'm probably in the minority, and the guitar's re-designer and the average modern player will probably shrug and go "it makes the guitar more versatile". But I'd like to see Fender to that to a strat or tele and see how the Fender playing-public reacts. A well seasoned telecaster player will just say "hey, if that lead pickup is too bright, get on the guitar's tone knob : that's what it's for!". Well, that works great for these guitars too.

here's an awkward little amateur collage I made that kind of demonstrates my nerdy nit-picking. left to right is a brand new X175 special, an early 60's X500, and a late 90's Westerly made X160 Rockabilly. In person, it's a LOT less subtle than in the pics.
175special.jpg

Fascinating observation. I wonder why they did this?

The pics don't show the difference as much because the scale of the blue X175 is off compared to the other two which, combined with the pickups having been moved, makes for an illusion of them being well centered. Hmm...

I tried to compensate your pic to make them all the same scale and I think what you're talking about is a lot more obvious.

X175NSPickupPositions.jpg
 
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Walter Broes

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Fascinating observation. I wonder why they did this?
Thanks for correcting my little composite pic there, your edit shows what I was getting at much better!

As dhdfoster alluded to in a previous post - it's most likely Mike Lewis' idea. And also suggested, and true in that post, is that Mike Lewis (of FMIC) did amazing work for Gretsch as well as Guild. When Fender took over Gretsch production and distribution in 2003, he was the guy that completely redesigned the line - and he did it right. From 1989 to 2003, almost every guitar in the "new" Japanese built Gretsch lineup was built plain wrong.

They were a strange mix of Baldwin-era body and headstock shapes, severely overbuilt and crazy heavy and dead, and they weren't at all like the classic 50's and 60's Gretsches that had become iconic by that time. Didn't look, feel, or sound like them, and certainly weren't built like them.
What he did was both clever and simple in its logic : he blueprinted vintage guitars, and copied almost everything except the sloppy build and crummy neck joints of the originals. He must have spent weeks reading posts on the Gretsch forum finding out what people hated about the new guitars, and loved about the old ones. He really did his homework.
He was the guy that took a vintage 6120 and put it in an X-ray machine to analyze and bring back the famous trestle bracing in the Brian Setzer models.

And so many years later, in what turned out to be a last ditch attempt from FMIC to breathe new life into Guild, they put him on Guild, and the whole Newark street line and American Patriarch line was his work, and he (obviously) did the same thing : he blueprinted a bunch of vintage Guilds, and translated those into guitars that could be built to a price point in a modern Korean factory.
And I was amazed when I first laid eyes on a NS X175 - it looked almost exactly like the 1960 I used to own at one point - same body shape and depth, even the neck on the first NS guitars were a flat out copy of the original ones. (they've gone to a less rounded, slightly smaller profile since)

So that's some of the crazy awesome stuff he did. So don't get me wrong. He's a cool guy who REALLY knows guitars and amp, and he's a pretty smokin' blues player.

But when it came to Gretsch's cheaper Korean built "electromatic" guitars, he got a little more creative and less respectful of the vintage guitars, and implemented some changes that would appeal to modern/novice players who weren't necessarily looking for a close copy of Chet Atkins' or George Harrison's guitars.

And that where that bridge pickup thing comes in : the Electromatic Gretsches, since 2003 (up to today) have that bridge pickup sitting a good deal closer to the neck.
And it does make sense in a way : the traditional location IS a little surprising to people raised on on les paul inspired guitars, superstrats, guitars with fat chunky bridge pickups that get a big fat bass response that works great for rock with some gain, that get that "chunk chunk" rock tone that works great with power chords and palm muting.

And clearly, when Mike got to work on the Newark street guitars, he must have felt the twangy, thin, skinnier sounding Franz bridge pickup on a vintage X175 could use some help in that department. It does get a lot more bass response and it sound fatter and less spiky in the treble than the vintage ones, and I bet a lot of players prefer that, and would positively hate the much thinner sounding vintage guitars' bridge pickup.

I've "corrected" it on my own Newark Street X175 and put the lead pickup in the "vintage correct" location, and predictably, having played a vintage X175 for two decades, I like it much better that way. It's pretty easy with the Franz pickup, as it's top mounted, and the cover is just wide enough to hide any "scars" the previous location left. But with the skinnier DeArmond pickups, and the holes underneath your pictures show, I don't think you can move it back without a gap showing.
175black.jpg
 
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GAD

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That is some great info and having never played a vintage one, something I would have never noticed.

Also that guitar is a beauty!
 

Guildadelphia

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The bridge pu position on my NS X175B is my only real criticism I have of the guitar. I also think Mike Lewis meant well when he did it that way, but I could achieve the same thing by adjusting the tone knob. Having the pu's at the original distance optimizes the tonal possibilities of the guitar. They were basically fixing a problem that didn't exist, especially on a guitar that has separate tone and volume controls for both pu's. That being said, I am still happy as all hell that the NS Series exists and I was able get my hands on a very well made and very reasonable facsimile of a vintage Guild X175 without having to sell a body part that I had been gassing for most of my life.
 
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