new pricing

[kostask]

[quote="john_kidder":7e329]We're also now seeing some labour contractors going to Mexico and Guatemala, selecting people from hordes of applicants, and bringing them up on short visas to meet the enormous demand for labour in the oilpatch and the tarsands up north.

Mr. Kidder, I don't know where you get your information regarding the immigrants in the oil patch, or at the tar sands, but you should closely review what you have been told. It is difficult for Albertans to get into the oil and gas business, any part of it, and for all intents and purposes, impossible for immigrants unless there is a specific, very specialized skill that they have that is unavailable within Alberta. There is even a language competency test for people from out of province, since we had an incident where somebody came in from Quebec to work on pipelines, and somebody got hurt because he didn't understand enough English to understand what people were yelling at him. Good luck in that environment if you are not Albertan, or Canadian.

Thanks, Kostak - always good to get new information. I got the previous bit from the Globe and Mail (eastern bastards) and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (commies all) - most of the story on the CBC was actually about the construction business in Calgary, but there was a pretty solid story with interviews and footage and all of a contractor hiring for the oil patch. I suppose it's possible that the Mexican guys in question (who did speak English) had prior experience in the Gulf or some other trade skill, but if so it wasn't mentioned. And I have a young, strong, and heretofore completely unskilled nephew from Abbotsford who's working in Fort MacMurray making very fine money indeed.

I think one of the big differences here is that we have very few "illegals", really. A few who file fraudulent refugee claims, but nearly all the foreign workers in Canada are here on visas, having met some qualifications, which generally include a willingness to do work for which an employer has shown that people in Canada aren't available (read "willing").[/quote:7e329]

You need to get out and speak to people in Alberta, and people who work in the tar sands, before referencing some reporter in Toronto on what is actually happening in Alberta, and Calgary specifically. The Globe and Mail is not exactly a newspaper I would use as a reference, and the CBC story was about construction, not the oil sands. The Globe and Mail are not eastern bastards, they just believe that Toronto is the center of the universe, and always will have that orientation, and will always view the rest of Canada, even Montreal and Vancouver, from that perspective. They don't have a permanent presence in Alberta or Calgary, so they don't really have a feel, or understanding of what is going on here.

Kostas

 

[capnjuan]

....They don't have a permanent presence in Alberta or Calgary, so they don't really have a feel, or understanding of what is going on here. Kostas

Ok Kostak, I'll bite; what is going on there? Alberta / Edmunton have energy-driven economies, no? Will trade you a squad of Guatamalans for a pair of tandoori-enabled Indians ... was once in Edinburgh Scotland, walking the back streets and came across an Indian restaurant ... taken back for a moment but then recalled the empire days; who do you have doing the heavy-lifting out your way?

J

 

[kostask]

What is happening here is a very overheated economy. Energy is a big part of it, but every major industry is having labour problems, from local restaurants not having enough waiters and waitresses to allow for all tables to be working, to Tim Horton's (sort of the Canadian equivalent of Dunkin' Donuts) paying anybody who will work there $14/hr with full benefits, and a scholarship fund. It is McDonald's employees in Fort McMurray (heart of tar sands production) making $24.00/hr, two years ago; its probably closer to $28/hr now. It is every construction trade in Calgary being so busy, it takes 6 months for say, a plumber/electrician to come out and take a look at what needs to be done; not to fix the issue, just to look at it; they will schedule you after that.

It is also house prices in Edmonton and Calgary going up over 50% in one year; happened three years ago in Calgary, two years ago in Edmonton. It is not being able to retain employees for very long, because somebody down the road just offered them more money and better benefits, and you only hired the employee two months ago.

How's that?

Kostas

P.S. Everything is mostly done by Canadians, with some contribution from the short term visa immigrants. Calgary is where people from the rest of Canada come when they want to make a living. Cost of living here is getting very high, though, so you can make a good salary, but spend a lot, too.

P.P.S This is getting a little far from the guitar talk.

 

[guildzilla]

The line CJ writes about the illegal immigration influx hurting the American underclass and working class is also where I'm coming from. The less advantaged kids who come out of HS with no college prospects would otherwise be in greater demand in the construction trades. The trades used to be an excellent route to training and self-reliance. Forty years ago, where I grew up in Youngstown, Ohio, the trades were unionized and there were training programs. Forty years later, here in Columbus, none of that. Local construction here is a free-for-all for underbidders, including people skinning the cat with illegal sources of labor. And, by the way, the quality of work has suffered something awful along the way. And it's hurting those few employers who try to take care of their people and do things the right way. How do you compete with all the cheaters?

I am all for fairly liberal immigration policies, but I don't want to tolerate what has happened and its ramifications. I don't mean to be heartless and I have all the respect in the world for legal immigrants, but we need to cease employing the illegal workers, deport the illegals who don't go home voluntarily and let them and us, as a nation, start over and better.

I work with regular-Joe people in a small cabinet shop within a warehouse business that serves the apartment industry. These people struggle, and they are almost all one misfortune - an accident or illness - away from complete disaster because nobody can afford the pitiful health insurance offered.

I'm not complaining for myself. I'm fine. But few of the people who are fine understand how difficult it's become in the working class.

So there you go. I definitely tend toward liberal views, but not on the subject of illegal immigration.

I also use to be a no-nukes guy, but I've reconsidered that position, too, CJ. It's time to revisit that technology again and gamble that we can do it safely. Have some guts to try.

As always, no offense intended to anyone who may disagree with my views.

 

[capnjuan]

How's that? Kostas. P.S. Everything is mostly done by Canadians, with some contribution from the short term visa immigrants. Calgary is where people from the rest of Canada come when they want to make a living. Cost of living here is getting very high, though, so you can make a good salary, but spend a lot, too. P.P.S This is getting a little far from the guitar talk.

How's that? It's fine Kostas, thank you.
P.S. Economic rock 'n roll...
P.P.S Threads go where they go, there are no fines or penalties for veer, and, considering alternatives such as Sheep Dags, this veer is better than most. If anyone wants to talk about upward drift in guitar prices, they are not precluded by the applied macro-economic yack. Thanks again.

Best wishes,
John

 

[Default]

As far as economics go, I think we're all grasping part of the same elephant. If it were simple and easy, we'd be talking about abalone and maple versus rosewood.

I'm just hoping that the part of the elephant I'm grasping, is the trunk and not something else.

 

[West R Lee]

Zilla,

I watched an ABC program recently in which the big story was about illegal immigration and the effects it has had. The program went on to interview several members of California government in which they said that Southern California has had to close 70 hospitals in the last 5 years because they had gone broke. They said that last year alone, California had gone in the hole over $350,000,000 in order to support uninsured illegals.

In the United States, our county hospitals have a policy of not turning away uninsured patients. Illegal Hispanics not only know that, but are well aware that if their child is born here, not only will the delivery be free of charge, but the child will automatically be a U.S. citizen.

They went on to discuss a public hospital in Dallas that I am very familiar with, Parkland hospital. The show pointed out that 82% of the babies born there last year, were born to illegals.

This country and it's people can not continue to support the world. The consequences are that millions of hard working, tax paying individuals are losing the standard of living we have worked so hard for all of our lives. For 30 plus years, we look forward to retirement. I'm afraid it won't be there when it comes our time. The American dream is being very rapidly eroded by the mass influx of illegals. They are absolutely draining our health care and social service systems!

West

 

[capnjuan]

... I also use to be a no-nukes guy, but I've reconsidered that position, too, CJ. It's time to revisit that technology again and gamble that we can do it safely. Have some guts to try. views.

Hi Zilla; you'd think that after Three Mile Island, the NERC would have locked the nuke operators in a room and told them no one gets out until there's an explanation for what happened, why, and what measures will be taken to prevent another. Not to say that there won't be but, as far as I know, there hasn't been one. US reactors are also not built like the Sovietski plants.

Jim: other than to say the presence of illegals in the pool of uninsureds makes an already bad situation worse, I have no answer, fix, or witty reply. Agree it's a problem but if local and state officials can't control the sale of weeds to kids, rounding up and deporting aliens isn't going to go much better.

cj

 

[West R Lee]

I agree with you on the status quo John, that's why we need to elect politicians that are not only aware of these problems, but are willing to make the tough decisions to remedy them. To me those decisions aren't tough at all though. You have the law, and you have breaking the law. Why is immigration law in place if it's not to be enforced? A sign of very spineless politicians if you ask me.

I am as serious as can be when I say this. Hattenhauer will know who I'm talking about. There is a Maricopa County sheriff that has erected a tent prison in the desert. A little fence, a bunch of tents and a few armed guards. That's all you need! Once they cross the border illegally and get caught, stick them in there and leave them since they only recross if you send them home. That costs far less tax dollars than food stamps, welfare, free medicine, free education, etc.

West

 

[capnjuan]

You're right; some empowerment at the local level helps like your Sheriff. Unless there are local laws, generally illegal immigration is a Federal, not a local, crime and local gummints rightfully expect the US gummint to get in the game. For example; Palm Beach County has one smallish commercial port - The Port of Palm Beach - and 50 miles of coastline w/ shallow, wade-ashore water. Total number of US Border Patrol officers?: 4. INA now falls under Homeland Security; no longer under the Justice Department ... hardly makes a difference.

Politicians show 'spine' when the object of their interests are hadly in a position to defend themselves; everbody supports outting / ID'ing / controlling pedophiles who move into neighborhoods because their bad conduct can result in a real victim. Tolerating illegals is a 'crime' but, in some respects, without a victim; agree, the situation bites.

Under the banner of reducing taxes, the State of FL yesterday passed a constitutional amendment reducing property taxes. Those property taxes are used, in part, to fund all kinds of programs across the board including subsidizing hospitals for losses due to insured patients including illegals. Were the facilities you were talking about here in FL; they would have less income to look forward to in the future w/ no help from Tío Samuel. cj

 

[john_kidder]

If I had my way, I wouldn't pay into making Dubai a playground for Euros or anyone else and regret that Les Canucquois are tearing up their country to sell energy products to us, the US, and whoever else is willing to pay.

we go elsewhere to buy the energy necessary to cover the spread between grow-our-own and consumption; so we'ez go up north and ask: "Hi John and Graham, got any energy for sale?" and the answers are: "Yes", "How much are you willing to pay" and, "Be right back, we have to go rip up the backyard".

And we here in Canada bitch and squawk about the US gummint's seemingly perverse inability to act in respect of climate change, cheer on the Gubernator in California for taking things on. Meantime, our prime minister's right in there with the best of the deniers ("Just normal fluctuations, no human effect, nothing we can or should do, etc."), as the permafrost melts and the glaciers and icecaps recede and the pine beetle eats the boreal forest and the Great Lakes drop and . . .

But we do get to continue to juice up production in the tarsands to feed the insatiable US hunger for energy, thereby making an enormous amount of money for oil companies (now, at a guess, might we think they were owned mostly by other than Canadian interests?), and in the process, as Kostas says, "overheating" the entire Alberta economy and not coincidentally pissing enormous amounts of greenhouse gases up the spout, thereby making a mockery of anything "environmental" we might say or do anywhere in the country.

Somebody commented that Canadians use almost as much energy per capita as Americans? Last I looked at the data, we used more. The big excuse here is that we have 36 million people in the second-largest country in the world, so transport's a bit of an issue, and much of this great empty land has been known to get cold, so heating takes a bit of energy too. THere are actually people in this benighted country talking about global warming as a good thing - "We'll be able to grow wheat in the Arctic" and such nonsense. Well, at least we won't need to burn as much fuel to keep warm in the winter, so we can just keep selling it as fast as we can dig it up.

It's no wonder young people are so fundamentally disillusioned about their elders' apparent total inability to recognize facts, speak truth, or do anything that might be ever-so-slightly against their vested economic self-interest.

 

[kostask]

If I had my way, I wouldn't pay into making Dubai a playground for Euros or anyone else and regret that Les Canucquois are tearing up their country to sell energy products to us, the US, and whoever else is willing to pay.

we go elsewhere to buy the energy necessary to cover the spread between grow-our-own and consumption; so we'ez go up north and ask: "Hi John and Graham, got any energy for sale?" and the answers are: "Yes", "How much are you willing to pay" and, "Be right back, we have to go rip up the backyard".

And we here in Canada bitch and squawk about the US gummint's seemingly perverse inability to act in respect of climate change, cheer on the Gubernator in California for taking things on. Meantime, our prime minister's right in there with the best of the deniers ("Just normal fluctuations, no human effect, nothing we can or should do, etc."), as the permafrost melts and the glaciers and icecaps recede and the pine beetle eats the boreal forest and the Great Lakes drop and . . .

But we do get to continue to juice up production in the tarsands to feed the insatiable US hunger for energy, thereby making an enormous amount of money for oil companies (now, at a guess, might we think they were owned mostly by other than Canadian interests?), and in the process, as Kostas says, "overheating" the entire Alberta economy and not coincidentally pissing enormous amounts of greenhouse gases up the spout, thereby making a mockery of anything "environmental" we might say or do anywhere in the country.

Somebody commented that Canadians use almost as much energy per capita as Americans? Last I looked at the data, we used more. The big excuse here is that we have 36 million people in the second-largest country in the world, so transport's a bit of an issue, and much of this great empty land has been known to get cold, so heating takes a bit of energy too. THere are actually people in this benighted country talking about global warming as a good thing - "We'll be able to grow wheat in the Arctic" and such nonsense. Well, at least we won't need to burn as much fuel to keep warm in the winter, so we can just keep selling it as fast as we can dig it up.

It's no wonder young people are so fundamentally disillusioned about their elders' apparent total inability to recognize facts, speak truth, or do anything that might be ever-so-slightly against their vested economic self-interest.

Regarding the "are tearing up their country to sell energy products to us", you need to know what is up there. Despite what one of the environmentalists in the US said regarding the tearing up of Canadian forests to get the oil out of the tar sands, the area that the tars sands are in is not exactly a forest. It is flat, and aside from some scrub, it it pretty much barren flat land. Trees don't grow there, as the tar sand itself is not hospitable to tree, or most vegetation. There are severe issues with the "tailings", or left overs from the processing, and there is a fairly high greenhouse gas emission from both extraction and processing due to the energy required to separate the oil from the sand. Much of those concerns are addressed by the SAGD process I described in an earlier email. There is even a proposal in front of the Alberta Government to allow the building of a nuclear power plant to provide the energy for the tar sands going forward. This will actually result in fewer greenhouse gas emissions, as the current power generators run on coal or natural gas. There are plans underway, but they will take time, and are not all guaranteed to work. I personally think the governmant could do better, but they are trying.

The environmentalist in the US who started all this, extrapolated from her trip to Northern BC (British Columbia). The land there has no resemblance to the land that the tar sands are on. It is sort of visiting Vermont, and extrapolating that all of the US is filled with rolling green hills. The tar sand area is basically what is most accurately called tundra, and there will eventually be a process to return the tailings (mostly sand without the tar/oil) to the same area that it was removed from.

If you want to see the real beauty of Alberta, just head west out of Calgary, or Edmonton, and you will see more forest and woodland than you could shake a stick at. Those are protected in many ways, and are still quite pristine, as are the Rockies on the BC side.

Kostas

 

[capnjuan]

Florida Power and Light announced it's intention to seek regulatory approval for two new nukes at its existing nuke station in far SW Dade County. We'll see the contest between politicians the environmentalists and whoever else wants to chime in. Currently, FP&L burns natural gas and petroleum at a number of its facilities and would like to burn something else. Estimated cost; $15 - $20 billion ultimately to be paid by the rate payers. It's a certainty that costs will rise with or without nukes; this is a rate-of-rise question.

Can't say about Les Canucquois however building nukes is easily the most regulatory-intensive undertaking there is in the US. 'They' wouldn't allow oil drilling closer to the Gulf coast of FL, 'They' would allow coal slurry pipelines ... it isn't clear what 'They' are willing to allow other than 10s of thousands of windmills and reclaiming methane from landfills. Will be time for the pols, the NERC, and the Public Utility Commissions to put up or shut up.

I get your point Kostas; the tar sands area that are being 'exploited' might not be the most scenic areas and there are restoration obligations. Same in the Eastern US for strip mines but only in the last 20 years; no one is obligated to go back and fix the scars that contribute sulphuric acid / iron oxide runoff. I hope you benefit while the boom is on; not trying to out you but I take it you are tied in with oil sand / energy development some how?

Enjoy the boom while its on; sounds like the western US in the gold rush era of the 19th century, Texas in the 1950s/1960s ... if they get $24.00/hr flipping burgers, what does the burger go for; $12? Only kidding ... sort of.

John

 

[Graham]

Enjoy the boom while its on; sounds like the western US in the gold rush era of the 19th century, Texas in the 1950s/1960s ... if they get $24.00/hr flipping burgers, what does the burger go for; $12? Only kidding ... sort of.

John

For the most part I will stay out of the discussions here due to my enormous ignorance in facts accompanied by my dismal ability to present an argument, I will read it with interest though. I did read where a Tim Hortons actually closed it's doors because it could not make a profit. When you are paying the staff around $14.00 to pour coffee you need to sell an awful lot of the product, and while Hortons does do that, even they could not sell enough. :shock:

I don't know that the US has such an establishment as Tim Hortons. This goes national here, not just for a coffee but usually a clean restroom on the trip. I have Hortons POIs on my GPS so whenever we travel we can find the nearest one, very comfortable place to stop.

 

[capnjuan]

Would a Tim Hortons be the equivalent of a Starbucks with a sit-down menu?

 

[FNG]

Enjoy the boom while its on; sounds like the western US in the gold rush era of the 19th century, Texas in the 1950s/1960s ... if they get $24.00/hr flipping burgers, what does the burger go for; $12? Only kidding ... sort of.

John

For the most part I will stay out of the discussions here due to my enormous ignorance in facts accompanied by my dismal ability to present an argument, I will read it with interest though. I did read where a Tim Hortons actually closed it's doors because it could not make a profit. When you are paying the staff around $14.00 to pour coffee you need to sell an awful lot of the product, and while Hortons does do that, even they could not sell enough. :shock:

I don't know that the US has such an establishment as Tim Hortons. This goes national here, not just for a coffee but usually a clean restroom on the trip. I have Hortons POIs on my GPS so whenever we travel we can find the nearest one, very comfortable place to stop.

They have Tim Hortons in the Detroit area.

 

[Graham]

They have Tim Hortons in the Detroit area.

And Buffalo and several States up the Eastern side, where you're likely to find Canyukians. I wonder why there are none in Florida though. :shock:

Would a Tim Hortons be the equivalent of a Starbucks with a sit-down menu?

No, not nearly as pretentious as Starbucks. Started out as coffee and doughnuts but have increasingly added to their "menu" to include breakfast sandwiches, lunch sandwiches and soups. Most business here is drive thru, which pisses off the environmentalists in the GTA, they want to ban idling in drive thrus now. :shock: I think we call that a parking lot.

 

[FNG]

We have Dunkin Doughnuts and Krispy Kremes!! For whatever that's worth. I think one has to find a local bakery/doughnut shop to get the best ones.

I do like those Starbucks frappes, or whatever. The coffee, creme, and ice all blended up with some mocha, whipped creme, and some more chocolate on top. Dang!!!

 

[kostask]

No, aside from knowing some people who work in the oil & gas, and in the tar sands, I have no association with the oil and gas industry at all. In fact, I am more of an opponent of the oil and gas business, and the way it is conducted here in Alberta. We recently had a royalty review, and the recommendation was that royalties be raised by 20%, as the royalties derived from the natural resources were suspected by the general population to be far too low in light of the increased price of oil. All sorts of oil company types were up in arms, doom and gloom predictions of the oil and gas industry shutting down etc. The Provincial Premier (roughly equvalent to a state Governor in the US) caved a little, and only implemented 70% of the recommended increase. The reality is, that the royalties here are lower than the average, or even median, than for any other oil region that has commerical development. The royalty rate, after the increase, is actually 2% less than it is in Texas, for example.

The interesting thing, is that a lot of the kicking and screaming came from the oil exploration guys, who said that rigs would be idle, exploration would go down by 50% from peak, and so on, all of course attributable to the increased royalties. They of course forgot to mention that rigs have been getting mothballed for over a year (due to the low price of natural gas) prior to the tax royalty increase. One of the largest natural gas producers is Encana (probably familiar to anybody in the energy business) who kicked and screamed very louldy, while announcing they were putting up a $1 Billion office tower in downtown Calgary.

The sand will be put back, because the companies strip mining it pay into a fund that will cover the costs for that. If they put the sand back, they get their money back. If they don't, the government will put it back, and use the money to pay for the cost of putting the sand back.

What a lot of people don't realize is the size of the oil sand field. It is absolutely huge (140,200 Sq. Km, or roughly 55,000 sq. miles) in area, and the oil sand itself can be anything from 20 Meters (60-70 Ft) to 150 Meters (close to 500 Ft) deep. There is no other place to put the sand, there is just too much of it left after processing. Some of the sand can have 5 M (15-20 ft.) of soil (called overburden), which makes strip mining uneconomical, which is why there is a constant R & D program to find better ways of extracting/separating out the oil.

I don't really like the oil companies, but some of the things being said are blatant fabrications from people who need or want to make headlines. That environmentalist was clearly out of line, and completely ignorant of what is going on in the tar sands. If she said things about the increased use of fresh water due to the processing of the oil sands, or that the oil companies should be doing more to curb greenhouse gases, she would have a real case. Concern about tearing up the environment, when she hasn't even seen the oil sands, and is extrapolating from a visit to Northern BC is just an attempt to grab attention. Where were the environmentalist when the Alaskan North Slope was being developed? They have conveniently forgotten about that; in what is arguably a far more fragile ecological system. The concern for the tar sands is like having a concern for not drilling in the desert, because it may harm the environment. Exactly what is it that is being harmed? The tar sands area is pretty barren; what animals/plants/insects etc. are being harmed, exactly? Sometimes, a dose of reality is needed.

Kostas

P.S. Krispy Kreme tried to come into Calgary, and failed. The local Tim Horton's (all 5 of them) are literally jammed, day and night around here, pretty much standing room only. Starbucks seems to appeal to a more yuppie crowd, Tim Horton's is more down market, more blue collar if you will, but you can see just about anybody in there, from suit and tie types, to greased up mechanics. I go to either, as the mood strikes.

 

[West R Lee]

:lol: And how many people would be adversly effected by drilling on the Alaskan Northern slopes Kostas? As for strip mining, again, I wouldn't have a clue what they do in Canada, but there are strip mines all over East Texas in which they dig for lignite. Years later, the lands that were stripped are far and away the most beautiful in the area. And have some of the highest real estate values due to their beauty. The mining companies plant beautiful grass and trees, build lakes and nurture wildlife. It is truely remarkable.

By and large, oil and gas companies get a bad rap simply becuase they make so damned much money. I work in the petrochemical business and have for 30 years, and it's truly mind boggling how much money the company I work for spends on the environment. :lol: It upsets hunters like me that we aren't allowed to hunt on the thousands of acres owned by my employer, there are more ducks, deer, geese, foxes, eagles on company property than anywhere else in East Texas.....and that's a fact.

It's just a total crock of horse dung that energy companies leave this barren, polluted wasteland behind and are totally irresponsible when it comes to the environment. Furthermore, in the REAL world, we'd all better hope and pray that the energy business continues to prosper. When it comes time to put a wind mill in my yard and run the water well and use solar panels to recharge my car batteries, I'll be the first in line, but that day ain't here yet, and won't be for the forseeable future. I'm just a realist.

West