new pricing

[kostask]

:lol: And how many people would be adversly effected by drilling on the Alaskan Northern slopes Kostas? As for strip mining, again, I wouldn't have a clue what they do in Canada, but there are strip mines all over East Texas in which they dig for lignite. years later, the lands that were stripped are far and away the most beautiful in the area. And have some of the highest real estate values due to their beauty. The mining companies plant beautiful grass and trees, build lakes and nurture wildlife. It is truely remarkable.

By and large, oil and gas companies get a bad rap simply becuase they make so damned much money. I work in the petrochemical business and have for 30 years, and it's truly mind boggling how much money the company I work for spends on the environment. :lol: It upsets hunters like me that we aren't allowed to hunt on the thousands of acres owned by my employer, there are more ducks, deer, geese, foxes, eagles on company property than anywhere else in East Texas.....and that's a fact.

West

West:

Far more than are affected by the strip mining in the tar sands, probably. And believe me, whether the sand is put back or not, there will not be any houses going up in that area, and land prices will not rise after the sans is put back. The land is fairly useless for anything aside from it containing oil.

I have a problem with the oil and gas companies lying through their teeth, so that the CEO can make their bonuses, and get that second Lear jet this year, instead of having to wait until next year. I have issues with oil companies claiming that they can't be profitable with the new royalty structure, even though they operate in other areas of the world in which the royalties are higher. The have no sense of common decency, or any respect for themselves, their customers, or the public in general. Money is the only thing that seems to count.

I don' have a problem with business, profits, or companies trying to make their case. I do have a problem with deceptive business practises, and downright lies so that the massive profits (Encana, the natural gas producer, make a yearly profit of $6 Billion last year) can be preserved, even though they are taking non-renewable resources out.

Kostas

 

[West R Lee]

Most big companies manipulate the truth Kostas, I don't like it either, but it's a fact of life. You think the Canadian company is bad, seems like I read in The Dallas Morning News early this year that Exxon was clearing something like $25-30 billion quarterly, and putting their profit in what amounted to a pass book savings account preparing to gobble up smaller companies. What the hell, they still produce more energy than any other company and we've got to have them. We need their oil, gas and clout.

Opec gets together and desides they're going to make a fortune and jacks up the price of oil. Exxon produces for virtually the same costs, doesn't lift another finger, and watches the money roll in. I don't like it, but it's a fact. And this being a free enterprise system, they have the right to make all they can. I would never expect them to sell their oil at a reduced rate, that's just not good business and they have shareholders to answer to. It's business, I just don't think they are the devil. In fact, I may soon end up working for them! Doing some negotiating with them now, so I may end up joining them....they sure pay well!

West

 

[Graham]

Doing some negotiating with them now, so I may end up joining them....they sure pay well!

West

Best of luck with that West.

Maybe they'll let you drive one of their boats?

:shock:

 

[capnjuan]

Down here; that would be considered either a 'Dive Boat' for the Scuba crowd or an Artificial Reef in the making. If a sand castle collapses in a sandy desert, does it make any noise? Not necessarily a fan of 'greedy oil companies' or their officers but, to some degree, it's one of the riskier businesses; having some similarities to drug companies. In oil's classic model; it does some science to see if they drill a hole, whether oil will come out v. if pharmco messes with the R&D for a drug, will it turn out to be useful (a/k/a profitable)? The problem for the Oil Boyz and Pharmcos isn't selling energy products or medical magic bullets, it's finding them.

I guess this is 'where' the what is:

And this is what the 'what they do' looks like (Lake Mildred):

Wiki Talk:
"...but tar sand deposits must be strip mined or made to flow into producing wells by in situ techniques which reduce the oil's viscosity using steam and/or solvents. These processes use a great deal of water and require large amounts of energy.

The heavy crude oil or crude bitumen extracted from these deposits is a viscous, solid or semisolid form of oil that does not easily flow at normal ambient temperatures and pressures, making it difficult and expensive to process into gasoline, diesel fuel, and other products. Despite the difficulty and cost, oil sands are now being mined on a vast scale to extract the oil, which is then converted into synthetic oil by oil upgraders, or refined directly into petroleum products by specialized refineries.

Many countries in the world have large deposits of oil sands, including the United States, Russia, and various countries in the Middle East. However, the world's largest deposits occur in two countries: Canada and Venezuela, both of which have oil sands reserves approximately equal to the world's total reserves of conventional crude oil. As a result of the development of these reserves, most Canadian oil production in the 21st century is from oil sands or heavy oil deposits, and Canada is now the largest single supplier of oil and refined products to the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_sands#Surface_Mining


Add on the capital equipment, processing facilities, and power consumption ... reminiscent of gold mining in South America where the ore is spread out in something like a 'leach field' and sprayed with arsenic to precipitate out the gold, copper, platinum, and other rare metals. These facilities are also in nearly inaccessible areas of Chile, Peru, and parts of Argentina with their low likelihood of subsequent development into tract housing, fern bars, or retirement communities.

Following up my blurb about FP&L and their nukes; their application is the first in 30 years in the US for nuke stations built from scrath as opposed to updates, revisions, and major overhauls. They estimate about 10 years for permits and aren't just asking for a simple 'Political OK'; they want something closer to a Policy Endorsement; that what they are doing is broadly acceptable at all levels of gummint to prevent politically inspired 'snatch-back' of interim or provisional OKs ... some expression protecting their upcoming investment that the US/FL are committed to some other energy acquisition/generation policies than what's been prevailing which has been buying self-depleting, self-defeating energy products from people (in FL, US natural gas producers) who are also operating under 'make hay while the sun shines' and 'when it's gone, there ain't no more' principles.

I feel some lyrics coming on...

Guess I'll go out to Alberta
Mining's good there after all
Got some firms that I can go to workin' for
Still I wish you'd change your mind
If I asked you one more time
But We've been thru that a hundred times or more .. Tar Sands Wins

 

[Graham]

Tar Sands Wins

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Jeff]

about FP&L and their nukes; their application is the first in 30 years in the US for nuke stations built from scrath as opposed to updates, revisions, and major overhauls. They estimate about 10 years for permits and aren't just asking for a simple 'Political OK'; they want something closer to a Policy Endorsement;

FP&L may be exercising more good judgement than would appear to the casual observer.

Standing in a field not far away stands this monument to Public Utilities Nuclear Power development. Satsop Nuclear Power station, WPPS #3. Project abandoned along with several others in the late 70's.

Investors left holding a $2.5 billion bag.

Currently used as a Storage & Auction facility for salvaged lumber. Some talk of a Gas Power generating company purchasing the site & converting to a Natural Gas Power plant. Likely the prospective buyer is a Canadian Firm.

http://www.historylink.org/essays/outpu ... le_id=5482

Here's an aerial photo of the Guild plant in Tacoma, Actually; Frederickson Wa. Guild facility is the smaller building center left between two larger bldgs.

Directly North of the Guild factory is Frederickson Power, the building with circular cooling fans in the roof. My cousin works instrumentation there, it's a single Gas Turbine, pretty good size turbine, I forget if it's a 36" or 42" gas line feeding the turbine. Canadian Firm owns & operates the plant.

I get regular reports from my Cuzin, the goings on in the Guild Parking lot. Lots of Harleys, come quittin time at Guild there's Roaring Thunder from American Iron. 8)

 

[capnjuan]

FP&L may be exercising more good judgement than would appear to the casual observer.

Whoops indeed

Roll on, Canada, roll on
Roll on, Canada, roll on
Your oil sands are turning our darkness to dawn
So roll on, Canada, roll on Special Thanks to Woodie

In Fairfax County VA; our BBer 'Frono's' 'hood, about every 7 to 10 years, they used to throw out the County Board; 'no growth' bunch followed by 'growth' bunch ... cycling like the stock market and largely stampedable by whatever ... make no mistake; Fairfax County is a large, sophisticated, prosperous suburb of Wash DC and IIRC, with a proportion of college degree holders higher than nearly anywhere in the US. Surviving permitting for a combo gas station / car wash is one thing, a nuke is another.

In the northern half of Palm Beach County and since the late 1970s, tract housing has been of the 'gated community'/condo type which is to say that if you can't put up a satellite dish which you can't in most developments, don't ask about retro-fitting a windmill or solar panels and the like; that is, the homes with the higher values whose occupants could afford to go out of pocket for 'conservation' would be precluded by condo associations legally compelled to enforce their own ordinances ('Les Commadoes' in Canuckie-talk). We be talking about 20,000 or so residences just in the north county.

In the late 80s/early 90s, Pacific Gas and Electric with Bechtel in tow came to Palm Beach County to build 2 trash to cash burners in the Everglades cane fields. The 'trash' was bagesse, the vegetable residue from grinding sugar cane stalks; the other component of 'trash' was worn out pressure treated lumber. There was a deal between FP&L to buy the secondary electrical output; whatever wasn't needed to run the plant, at a cost per kw provided the supply was on-line at a 75% availability. The two plants were late, unreliable, the baggese - which has the Btu value of grass clippings, wouldn't get hot enough to make steam without burning heaps of the stuff; FP&L was excused by the courts from complying with its end of the contract because PG&E / Bechtel had already breached it.

Oh yes and by the way; the worn-out pressure treated lumber, because it was old and worn out, had been treated with arsenic to fight bugs / mold / deterioration; all ok by then-prevailing standards. The plant operators, oblivious to this fact, burned up tons of the stuff, called the Enviros out to inspect the ash, the Enviros threw the yellow flag and, to this day - about 10 years later, some / all of the arsenic-laden ash is still piled up out there. "Not every shot lands on the green" Tiger Woods

I get regular reports from my Cuzin, the goings on in the Guild Parking lot. Lots of Harleys, come quittin time at Guild there's Roaring Thunder from American Iron. 8)

If the rumors are true, then I guess the bunch of them can Easy Rider their way over to CT; that or maybe FMIC will reimburse hauling with the household goods.

 

[john_kidder]

Back to the original inspiration for this thread, a story from this morning's New York Times:

• NEW YORK TIMES By DAVID BARBOZA
  Published: February 1, 2008
  China’s Newest Export: Inflation
  
  SHANGHAI — China’s latest export is inflation. After falling for years, prices of Chinese goods sold in the United States have risen for the last eight months. Soaring energy and raw material costs, a falling dollar and new business rules here are forcing Chinese factories to increase the prices of their exports, according to analysts and Western companies doing business here. The rise was a modest 2.4 percent over the last year. But even that small amount, combined with higher energy and food costs that also reflect China’s growing demands on global resources, contributed to a rise in inflation in the United States. Inflation in the United States was 4.1 percent in 2007, up from 2.5 percent in 2006. Because of new cost pressures here, American consumers could see prices increase by as much as 10 percent this year on specific products — including toys, clothing, footwear and other consumer goods — just as the United States faces a possible recession.
  
  In the longer term, higher costs in China could spell the end of an era of ultra-cheap goods, as well as the beginning of China’s rise from the lowest rungs of global manufacturing. “China has been the world’s factory and the anchor of the global disconnect between rising material prices and lower consumer prices,” said Dong Tao, an economist for Credit Suisse. “But its heyday is over. We’re going to see higher prices.”
  
  Chinese imports constitute 7.5 percent of spending by Americans on consumer goods, but they make up much bigger shares of several popular categories, including about 80 percent of toys, 85 percent of footwear, and 40 percent of clothing.
  
  Even when the market share held by Chinese goods is relatively small, their low prices put pressure on other producers to keep costs down. Whether Chinese factories will succeed in making wholesalers pay more for their goods and whether retailers will be able to pass much of their higher costs on to American consumers is unclear, analysts say. But companies that operate in China or buy from here are already reeling from mounting cost pressures that they say will weaken their profits and could disrupt their supply chains. “This is what I call the perfect storm,” said Alan G. Hassenfeld, the chairman of Hasbro, one of the world’s largest toy makers, during a recent visit to China. “We’ve got higher labor costs and labor shortages, plastic prices have gone way up and we’re doing more safety testing.” While no reliable figures exist on average Chinese wages, experts say that factory wages have risen 80 percent or more in many coastal areas in recent years, with the lowest wage about $125 a month.
  
  Some of the current cost pressures are actually by design — Beijing’s design. After years of complaints from the United States and Europe about China’s growing trade surplus, authorities here have removed incentives that once favored exporters of cheap goods. Starting last June, for instance, China removed or reduced tax rebates on hundreds of items for export, including toys, apparel, leather, wood and other goods, effectively taxing those industries.
  
  But the actions are also part of Beijing’s desire to move China higher up the global manufacturing chain — away from the least- finished products, like plastic children’s toys, toward more advanced exports that require skilled labor, like small electronics and even automobiles.
  
  Whatever the government’s motivation, many Chinese exporters say the timing of the rebate cut was disastrous. Their factories had been struggling to cope with problems that included power shortages, higher raw material costs, rising wages and inflation in other areas. For instance, the cost of some types of plastic has risen more than 30 percent in the last few years because of higher oil or petroleum costs. Plastic is a major component in toys and other consumer goods. Many Chinese factory owners say a tough new labor law, which went into effect on Jan. 1, complicates the hiring and firing process and threatens to raise labor costs even more, at a time when parts of the country are already plagued with labor shortages. Some factory owners say there have already been strikes and other turmoil over the interpretation of the new law and how it should be applied. “We have seen lots of brawls between employees and employers,” said Hong Jiasheng, vice president of the Taiwan Merchant Association, which represents investors in China. “We think the enactment of the new labor law is too hasty.”
  
  Analysts say Beijing is also stepping up its enforcement of environmental laws, putting added pressure on factories that had long skirted regulations. Adhering to those often ignored rules increases cost, too. These changes take place against the backdrop of a dollar falling modestly against the Chinese currency. The dollar is down about 7.6 percent in the last year against the yuan and is expected to fall further this year. The weaker the dollar, the more expensive Chinese and other goods become when their prices are converted to dollars.
  
  All in all, toy producers are among the hardest hit by the changes in law and prices. They rely on large quantities of plastic. They face heightened regulatory scrutiny after the product safety scandals last year. Indeed, some toy factories went bankrupt, squeezed between rising local costs and pressures from foreign customers to deliver a better product at an even lower price. “I’ve been in the toy industry for almost 20 years, but these past two years have been the hardest time,” said Guo Jinshen, manager of the Fenggang Fengyuan Plastic Toys Company. “Costs are rising, there are recalls, stricter regulation, more complicated inspection — all these things make it difficult.” To reduce costs, some factory owners are considering moving to inland China, where wages are lower, or to other parts of Asia, like Vietnam and Indonesia.
  
  Li & Fung, one of the biggest companies for supplying products worldwide, says its customers are already responding to Chinese inflation. “There’s a shift in sourcing driven by higher prices in China,” says Bruce Rockowitz, president at Li & Fung. “We’ve already seen a big move in furniture to Indonesia.” But while relocating production to cheaper countries could keep prices low for Western consumer goods, moving factories and complex supply chains is difficult. Such changes can take years and cost millions of dollars. In the meantime, makers of toys, apparel and footwear — highly labor-intensive industries — are being forced to consider raising prices even as growth in the United States slows, a rare confluence of events not seen in decades.
  
  Companies that began outsourcing production to China in the 1990s mostly benefited from lower costs, which translated into both higher corporate profits and lower consumer prices. Now, many Western companies have to rethink pricing.
  “Companies are now ordering for the spring of 2009,” says Nate Herman, director of international trade at the American Apparel and Footwear Association, based in Arlington, Va., that represents some big clothing and footwear makers. “Factories are coming back and asking for 20, 30, 40, 50 percent price increases.” Will importers pass those costs on to consumers? “It’s going to be hard to avoid some increase,” he said.

My information, so confidently spouted at the beginning of the thread, was obviously was out-of-date. I'm especially surprised that "The dollar is down about 7.6 percent in the last year against the yuan and is expected to fall further this year." I'll do some more research - I thought the dollar and the renimbi were pegged, as I said earlier. And is anyone else taken aback by "80 percent of toys, 85 percent of footwear, and 40 percent of clothing" sold in the US come from China?

In the end, it appears that Fender's price increases on GAD guitars may just be part of a much larger overall trend.