NEW Guild D4!!

[-ike-]

hello everyone,

here in Germany, i have located a dealer that offers a NEW(!) Guild D4 with the following serial number: CF001988. he wants 700 euro (1 euro = 1.40 US$).

do you think it is worth it?

 

[adorshki]

hello everyone,
here in Germany, i have located a dealer that offers a NEW(!) Guild D4 with the following serial number: CF001988. he wants 700 euro (1 euro = 1.40 US$).
do you think it is worth it?

That s/n would make it approximately 16-18 years old. What does he mean by "NEW"? Does he mean "never played"? Does he mean it has NEVER been sold before and can still receive a warranty?
I realize that the guitars are very hard to find in Europe, but I think this is still a little over-priced. Even if it has actually never been sold and has been in storage for 18 years, that may not actually be a good thing for the guitar.
If it is in VERY EXCELLENT condition and includes GUILD hardshell case, it is probably worth about $700.00 US, IN the US, at the maximum.

 

[-ike-]

well, i contacted the shop owner and he told me he bought the D4 in the 90ties - new. at those days the price in DM was 1699 which would be around 850 euro today. he also told me, the D4 has not been sold yet. so i asume it is in the shop ever since - not really sure. but if it is used, he must lable it as used - by the german law.

if there are warranties from Guild? i don't know.
but here (and again by the german law) if you buy something new in a shop here in germany, you automaticly get two years garantee to this product. the dealer is in charge for it.

there is no case to the D4.

 

[adorshki]

well, i contacted the shop owner and he told me he bought the D4 in the 90ties - new. at those days the price in DM was 1699 which would be around 850 euro today. he also told me, the D4 has not been sold yet. so i asume it is in the shop ever since - not really sure. but if it is used, he must lable it as used - by the german law.

It is the same here.

if there are warranties from Guild? i don't know.

It is unclear due to the changes of ownership of Guild the company. The German law is most likely to take precedent.

but here (and again by the german law) if you buy something new in a shop here in germany, you automaticly get two years garantee to this product. the dealer is in charge for it.
there is no case to the D4.

It can do no harm to ask him if he will provide a hard-shell case in the asking price. It is a wise investment in the protection of an instrument. The German warranty law is very helpful. I would suggest to ask him for verification in writing, that he is offering it under that condition.
If you have the ability to inspect the guitar, inspect the wood for signs of cracking from becoming too dried out. For other examples, the fret ends may protrude beyond the sides of the fingerboard, or the top may exhibit a warped condition. If these signs don't exist, that is good news. Also check that the neck is straight. It may show a very slight dip between the 7th and 10th frets, this is ok. It is called "relief". Also, the string height at the 12th fret should be a bit less than 4mm on the bass "E" string. If the gap is larger this may be sign that the neck has become out-of-alignment due to age. It may be also due to improper storage. The repair is very expensive. The crown of the saddle should also be approximately 4mm high above the bridge. This is the way they came from Guild. If it is lower this may be a sign that it has been shaved down to hide the effects of a neck which is out-of-line.
Inspect the frets very closely for signs of wear. This may also indicate if the guitar is truly "new".
You must still decide whether the guitar is a good price for you, in Germany.

 

[-ike-]

well, let me say it this way. here are many musicians that would never touch a D4 because here they are lower end guitars, because of their laminated backs and their "plain-jane" look. this guitars do not sound like a Martin guitar and so the most people here are not willing to spend that much money on a Guild - and if they do, they propably do not on a D4.

example: i bought my D25 for 540 euros. used including original case, 11 years old.
if this would be a Martin D18, the price would be around 2000 euros.

the dealer told me "it would be better to BUY a case for the D4" - so i don't think he will include one...

 

[adorshki]

well, let me say it this way. here are many musicians that would never touch a D4 because here they are lower end guitars, because of their laminated backs and their "plain-jane" look. example: i bought my D25 for 540 euros. used including original case, 11 years old.
if this would be a Martin D18, the price would be around 2000 euros.
the dealer told me "it would be better to BUY a case for the D4" - so i don't think he will include one...

That sounds like a fair price for the D25 even here in the US. If you like the way the D25 sounds, then you know that the laminated back is actually a very special feature of these guitars. The D4 will be the equal in quality in that measure.
I'm sure I speak for all, to wish you good luck if you pursue the D4.

 

[poser]

Hi ike.
Here is a review of a D-4 that a member posted on this board not too long ago.
http://letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=22797&p=247245&hilit=D4#p247245

I hope you're enjoying your D-25. If it's the one you have for your avatar, it looks like a real beauty.

 

[valleyguy]

I own an '81 D25 and have owned and sold a '96 D4. The D25 is a much better sounding instrument. I know I read that the D25 is made the same with the same woods as the D4, but I sold my D4 because I wasn't particularly thrilled with its sound, not so my D25. The D4 has a loud mid range, low on the treble strings, in fact I used to buy larger unwound strings to compensate. But of course everyone has different tastes in sound. The D4 was however, an excellent recording guitar, little overtones to muddy the recording, very defined sound. The D25 more overtones, more sustain.

 

[adorshki]

I own an '81 D25 and have owned and sold a '96 D4. The D25 is a much better sounding instrument. I know I read that the D25 is made the same with the same woods as the D4, but I sold my D4 because I wasn't particularly thrilled with its sound, not so my D25. The D4 has a loud mid range, low on the treble strings, in fact I used to buy larger unwound strings to compensate. But of course everyone has different tastes in sound. The D4 was however, an excellent recording guitar, little overtones to muddy the recording, very defined sound. The D25 more overtones, more sustain.

I have a very strong suspicion the differences would be due at least partly to any refinements in building techniques introduced during the "Gruhn/Walker" era, of the late '80's. One of the clues is the D25 gettting the "narrow headstock". But that IS an educated guess on my part.

 

[-ike-]

I have a very strong suspicion the differences would be due at least partly by any refinements in building techniques introduced during the "Gruhn/Wlker" era, of the late '80's, one of the clues is the D25 gettting the "narrow headstock". But that IS an educated guess on my part.

what is a "narrow headstock"? :shock:

 

[adorshki]

I have a very strong suspicion the differences would be due at least partly by any refinements in building techniques introduced during the "Gruhn/Wlker" era, of the late '80's, one of the clues is the D25 gettting the "narrow headstock". But that IS an educated guess on my part.

what is a "narrow headstock"? :shock:

Traditionally the crown at the top of the Guild headstock is wider than the bottom of it, the area where the truss rod cover is mounted, as in this photo:
http://westerlyguildguitars.com/guitars/d40.html
In the late '80's several models got a new, "narrow" headstock design as shown here:
http://westerlyguildguitars.com/guitars/d4hr.html
This has been suggested as being an aesthetic design motif of the luthier Kim Walker. There may be additional practical reasons for the design, such as a lighter neck for better balance when playing.
I'm pretty sure ALL D4's will have a narrow headstock, as well as post-1986 D25's.
By the way this is a common joke around here because it happens so often, but your truss rod cover should have the narrow end next to the nut. Many people have remounted them upside down after adjusting the truss because that's the way Gibson's covers look. It's a sure sign someone has taken it off for some reason.

 

[-ike-]

well, my truss rod cover says: "True American" on my D25.
that would look funny if it would be upside down :lol:

one more question: during the time the D4 and the D25 was offered, have there been any special orders that could one have? things like vintage look-a-like-tuners?

 

[taabru45]

I guess they frown upon things like Gibson 335s too because they have a lalminated top...as do so many others including some very high end archtops.. :? ..Guitars are very personal to their owners....but this one sounds a bit over priced.....Steffan :wink:

 

[adorshki]

well, my truss rod cover says: "True American" on my D25.
that would look funny if it would be upside down :lol:

In fact I saw just that on an Ebay D4 recently! :lol:
My D25 also has the "True American" logo. It was a marketing program for a while in the early '90', but I don't recall if there was anything else special about them besides the TRC.

one more question: during the time the D4 and the D25 was offered, have there been any special orders that could one have? things like vintage look-a-like-tuners?

In general terms I'd be surprised if you could special order anything for a D4. I recall now that it came without a case, when most Guilds were offered WITH a case, it was part of the package. But I wouldn't call that a "special order", it's more like an "add-on".
D25's on the other hand had at least 2 options available to order over the course of its production, from choice of finish color to extra pickguard, and I think there was another special order we saw here but I can't remember what it was. Maybe owners of earlier models could help fill in the blanks.