New 1964 Starfire V - A Few Questions & Looking For Harp Tailpiece to Replace Bigsby

[baconbadge]

New 1964 Starfire V - A Few Questions & Looking For Harp Tailpiece to Replace Bigsby

Hey folks, I'm new to the forum... Last week I maxed-out the ol' credit card and got myself a 1964 Starfire V from a seller online through gbase. It's all original except for a replaced pickup toggle switch, a new bridge, and a missing master volume knob. It's my first Guild, and having always played cheap Silvertones & Harmony guitars, it's amazing to finally have a guitar with this kind of build quality and craftsmanship! I also got Hans's Guild Guitar Book to learn everything I can about my new purchase... I just have a few questions (I apologize if they've been asked before):

1. I don't really have much use for the Bigsby, so I want to replace it with a harp tailpiece. Are all the Guild harp tailpieces the same size, shape & configuration? Including across all the different Guild models, and throughout the years? In other words, if I find one, can I automatically assume that it will work on my guitar? I'll be having a professional luthier do it for me. Does anyone know where I can get one?

2. The guitar came with a recent Gibson ABR-1 bridge on it. I don't think the slotting is exactly the same as the original bridge, because the strings don't line up with the pole pieces on the pickups. But then upon closer look, I don't think the pole pieces for the bridge & neck pickup line up with each other exactly anyway. (See pics). Was this common on these early Starfire V models, and does it even matter? Would there be any noticeable difference in sound if the strings lined up? Does my high E string look like it's a little close to the edge of the neck? It seems a hair close to me.

3. I want to replace the top of the bridge anyway (gonna keep the wood bottom), because the saddle on the G string has two slots in it, and the string jumps into the other slot when I bend hard. Soooooo... What kind of bridge should I get to replace the Gibson ABR-1 that would be a good fit & have the correct string spacing on it? I could go new or vintage, whatever is easy to find (and relatively cheap).

4. Finally, anyone know where I can get a replacement master volume knob?

Thanks!
-keith

 

[walrus]

Welcome, bacon! Love your guitar!

walrus

 

[Guildadelphia]

First of all, love your vintage Starfire....you're a lucky guy. With regards to changing out the Bigsby for a harp tailpiece: if you have to drill new holes to install a Harp tailpiece I would definately recommend not doing it. Leave the Bigsby on, it's original. You don't use or care for Bigsby's?....just keep the arm folded back and away and forget about it. As far as replacing the replacement TOM bridge: any good quality TOM ABR1 style bridge should work fine...just make sure you get one with un-notched saddles and have a good luthier properly cut the string slots and radius the saddles to match the fretboard (or do it yourself if you're good at that sort of thing).

 

[zizala]

Nice guitar!

I mostly agree with Guildadelphia, its not an easy choice (for some of us) when considering a modification to a nice old original. But if you should decide to go ahead anyway......

The new Cordoba Guild "parts store" lists one for their Newark St Starfire that will probably look right and work well.

https://shop.guildguitars.com/product/newark-st-collection-harp-tailpiece-for-starfire-iv-nickel/

Vintage ones show up now and then but might require some patience and diligence.....

 

[Default]

If you get a chance, measure the pickups' resistance and add it to the minibuckers reference post. Thanks and welcome!

 

[JohnW63]

Yeah, those strings do not line up over the pickups well, do they.

 

[hansmoust]

The guitar came with a recent Gibson ABR-1 bridge on it. I don't think the slotting is exactly the same as the original bridge, because the strings don't line up with the pole pieces on the pickups. But then upon closer look, I don't think the pole pieces for the bridge & neck pickup line up with each other exactly anyway. (See pics). Was this common on these early Starfire V models, and does it even matter? Would there be any noticeable difference in sound if the strings lined up? Does my high E string look like it's a little close to the edge of the neck? It seems a hair close to me.
-keith

Hello Keith,

Welcome! There are plenty of people on this forum who are willing to help you with your questions, but maybe you should check this first. I Looked quickly at the photos that you posted and I'm not sure if the info I'm getting is correct because they are not all exactly 'straight on' photos.
Anyway, it looks to me that you have 2 pickups for the fingerboard position. Also the spacing of the 'Gibson style' tune-o-matic bridge saddles is a tad wider than the spacing on the original Bigsby bridge. The spacing of the strings in combination with the 'wrong' pickup in the bridge position makes that the strings do not line up over the polepieces and it also brings the strings closer to the edge of the fingerboard.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[matsickma]

Don't think I ever saw a SF5 with those cool tuners.
M

 

[JohnW63]

So, if I read Han's post correctly, does he mean he has two neck pickups installed instead of a neck and a bridge ?

 

[baconbadge]

Hey guys, thanks for all the info! I took a few more pics and I also discovered a few more things... I'm definitely going to change out the Bigsby for a harp tailpiece (thanks for the link zizala) cause I don't really mind the extra holes, and it looks like there's already (at least one) extra one there:

So there's clearly something fishy going on... I don't know if someone had swapped out another tailpiece already, but the Bigsby has been moved slightly to the left. As you can see in the pic, the center binding seam doesn't line up with the bottom of the Bigsby, and you can see the faint outline to the right where the Bigsby used to be before it was moved over.

Also, the bottom screw on the Bigsby is different from the top two. Were all three screws originally the same? Also you can see that there's three plastic shims/washers (?) between the Bigsby and the guitar... not sure if these would be original?


In regards to the pickup situation, I tried taking another pic that was more straight on:

If you look closely at the edges of the fingerboard and the edges of the neck pickup, you can see that the pickup itself is definitely shifted more to the left. Just looking at the polepieces, you can see that the left-most polepiece lines up with the left edge of the fingerboard, while the right-most polepiece is much further in from the right edge of the fingerboard.

I also wasn't sure what Hans was saying about having the 'wrong' pickup in the bridge position. Were there two different pickups with corresponding different polepiece spacing & cover dimensions for the bridge & neck position? I unscrewed the black plastic pickup holders for both pickups and theres only one set of holes underneath, so the pickups are in their original position on the guitar.

It's quite a mystery... I'm definitely going to have to take it to a luthier who has the proper tools and experience to measure this stuff and figure out what's going on...

-keith

 

[hansmoust]

So, if I read Han's post correctly, does he mean he has two neck pickups installed instead of a neck and a bridge ?

Yes, that's what I think I see in the photos, but I may be wrong! The spacing of the strings on the bridge is what really throws things off!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Default]

That second hole under the tailpiece looks like it might be for the ground wire.

 

[hansmoust]

I also wasn't sure what Hans was saying about having the 'wrong' pickup in the bridge position. Were there two different pickups with corresponding different polepiece spacing & cover dimensions for the bridge & neck position? I unscrewed the black plastic pickup holders for both pickups and theres only one set of holes underneath, so the pickups are in their original position on the guitar.

Yes, there were two different pickups with different polepiece spacing; however the cover dimensions were the same.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[SFIV1967]

Are all the Guild harp tailpieces the same size, shape & configuration? Including across all the different Guild models, and throughout the years? In other words, if I find one, can I automatically assume that it will work on my guitar?

No, all the tailpieces are somewhat different, depending on model, time and body thickness for instance.

Were there two different pickups with corresponding different polepiece spacing

Yes, and that would be easy to measure on your guitar, if both have the same spacing from low to high E pole one is not original. You can see the difference also on the buttom of the pickups (when you remove them), the bridge pickup has a center hole, see also here: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...ference-post&p=1678496&viewfull=1#post1678496

Finally, anyone know where I can get a replacement master volume knob?

Here is a picture showing one.
It's the one in the lower row on the very right side. It has 1-9 markings but only the uneven numbers are printed on it:

They appear from time to time on ebay. The picture is from Ken Nash who also sells them.

Ralf

 

[baconbadge]

So I got some pics of the bottom of the pickups and it does look like I have two neck pickups in there, since there is no center hole in either. They both seem to have the same polepiece spacing too. This is a real bummer, since I was told that the pickups were original when I bought it. I'd like to get as much info that I can, so I can contact the seller and discuss my options.

What I'm wondering now is which pickup is the actual original neck pickup? As you can see in the pics, one is silver colored on the bottom, and one is gold. Can these different metal colors give us any clues?

NECK:

BRIDGE:

Also, what's the deal with the polepieces being such different lengths on the bottom? They're all raised about the same on top, but there's a huge difference on the bottom. Was this original, or could someone have cut some of them shorter?

thanks,
keith

 

[SFIV1967]

That looks really odd. At least in my 1967 guitar all the polepieces are the same length like the long pieces in your example. Why 3 are shorter, I don't know. The problem is now that you can't raise the short polepieces anymore. So I doubt that is original. Also look carefully at the bottom of the shorter pole pieces! They are not cut! They are simply shorter polepieces, they all have like a little point in the middle. I have no idea. Why would somebody replace polepieces? And with the wrong size? The top of all looks like they are the same age, not like the shorter pieces have a different color or look newer. Strange.

My pickups are both in color like your bridge pickup, brass colored. But they are from a 1967 guitar.
Both are Guild pickups, just not the same vintage I'd say. I would guess the silver neck pickup is the original 1964 one and the wrong bridge pickup is a later replacement. And whoever replaced it didn't know about the different pole pieces spacing or was just happy they got one.
Here is a picture of what a seller claimed to be 1965 pickups: https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/i...75,w_620/v1404913400/nedqmpkqo5irk0pnenua.jpg

The polepieces spacing is correct for the neck pickup. The bridge pickup in my 1967 one has about 53mm outside to outside vs the 50mm for the neck pickup. So it's really not so much difference and if both pickups work and have a good resistance I wouldn't worry. The seller might have had no idea.

Ralf

 

[Aristocrater]

The extra hole is probably for the ground wire. It is the plain wire that only about a quarter of an inch is sticking thru the hole to the outside of the guitar body. A good repair guy would know to make sure that it is touching the tailpiece. If not the strings will act as antennas and give you more hum then you'll ever want or need.

 

[Greenstone]

Looks to me like the wrong saddle- the tune-o-matic probably has the wrong (too wide) spacing for the guild specs- looks the same over both bridge and neck PUs. Shouldn't this guitar have the full aluminum bigsby floating bridge/saddle?

I have a guild SF III that additionally has holes drilled ala SF II- and I have both setups, the trapeze and the TOM, and the Bigsby + aluminum bridge. Recently I tried a roller bridge using the holes (and with the bigsby), the strings do not line up correctly over the polepieces like on the original Guild-spec bigsby aluminum saddle since the roller bridge is set up for Gibson style spacing.

 

[hansmoust]

Looks to me like the wrong saddle- the tune-o-matic probably has the wrong (too wide) spacing for the guild specs- looks the same over both bridge and neck PUs. Shouldn't this guitar have the full aluminum bigsby floating bridge/saddle?

I have a guild SF III that additionally has holes drilled ala SF II- and I have both setups, the trapeze and the TOM, and the Bigsby + aluminum bridge. Recently I tried a roller bridge using the holes (and with the bigsby), the strings do not line up correctly over the polepieces like on the original Guild-spec bigsby aluminum saddle since the roller bridge is set up for Gibson style spacing.

Greenstone,

This was already covered in posting # 7.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[SFIV1967]

The extra hole is probably for the ground wire.

Not in this case, look at that picture, the Bigsby was moved from the original position:

But in general you are right, there should be another hole for the ground wire, at least it is on my SFIV.

Ralf