Neck angle change and stability over time

[Muckman]

So, some questions are rattling in my mind as I consider cost/benefit and how soon to get a neck reset done on my Hoboken D40.

1) do I need to be careful with string gauge/tension on this guitar since the angle is a bit shallow?

2) is the neck movement that has occurred up till now primarily a “settling” of the original construction/materials or is it literally the guitar caving in on itself - does a neck reset make it more stable? Is it just as stable before it is reset?

Im sure the answers are not completely black and white, and also vary guitar to guitar.
Thanks, Gary

 

[HeyMikey]

As long as the action height is where you like it, and there is at least enough saddle for allow the string to break over it, then there is no immediate need for a reset. When it gets past the point where you can lower the saddle and have a decent break angle then find a luthier or two with experience working on old Guilds. They may have other tricks to delay a reset such as ramping string slots. I would resist shaving the bridge especially on the old ones that are often Brazilian and/or hard to replace.

You can possibly delay a reset a little bit by using lower tension strings, tuning down a half step or two, and making sure the guitar is properly humidified.

If it’s a long term keeper and hard to find guitar it may be worth the $500-1000. I’ve had a couple done on mine. Often a reset requires a new saddle, sometimes a nut, often fret leveling, potentially bridge repositioning, and often on Guilds finish touch-up around the neck joint.

 

[jedzep]

It's a similar question to, 'why does my car pull to the left when I brake'? When a qualified tech runs through the list of the possibilities and narrows things down, it might be more of an adjustment (truss rod?) than a brake job, front end work...or a neck reset.

It's geometry of guitar, so you should get the pro analysis.

String tension? I play nothing but mediums (13's) on all my guitars, always tuned down a step to D-D standard. It's almost 30 lbs of pull less than concert pitch 12's, yet with enough to drive the top. Easier on my old hands and gives me a couple extra vocal keys to play with.

 

[Muckman]

As long as the action height is where you like it, and there is at least enough saddle for allow the string to break over it, then there is no immediate need for a reset. When it gets past the point where you can lower the saddle and have a decent break angle then find a luthier or two with experience working on old Guilds. They may have other tricks to delay a reset such as ramping string slots. I would resist shaving the bridge especially on the old ones that are often Brazilian and/or hard to replace.

You can possibly delay a reset a little bit by using lower tension strings, tuning down a half step or two, and making sure the guitar is properly humidified.

If it’s a long term keeper and hard to find guitar it may be worth the $500-1000. I’ve had a couple done on mine. Often a reset requires a new saddle, sometimes a nut, often fret leveling, potentially bridge repositioning, and often on Guilds finish touch-up around the neck joint.

It’s a guitar that I feel is worth doing the reset, definitely. The action isn’t bad, not exactly how I would set it up if I had the option to lower the saddle though. My main gripe is the pick feel off of the high E and the B. With a taller saddle it seems you get more of that “pop”. The bridge hasn’t been ramped, so that is an option I’ve done before…..it’s a 67’ Hoboken D40, I hate doing anything to it that isn’t necessary. Seems to be all original now. Thanks for the advice and information

 

[Heath]

It’s a guitar that I feel is worth doing the reset, definitely. The action isn’t bad, not exactly how I would set it up if I had the option to lower the saddle though. My main gripe is the pick feel off of the high E and the B. With a taller saddle it seems you get more of that “pop”. The bridge hasn’t been ramped, so that is an option I’ve done before…..it’s a 67’ Hoboken D40, I hate doing anything to it that isn’t necessary. Seems to be all original now. Thanks for the advice and information

In my opinion a neck reset doesn’t effect originality. I’d consider that maintenance.

I have a ‘66 D40 that has had a reset and it plays like a new instrument.

 

[Muckman]

In my opinion a neck reset doesn’t effect originality. I’d consider that maintenance.

I have a ‘66 D40 that has had a reset and it plays like a new instrument.

I appreciate that and I agree with the neck reset being maintenance. I don't think I'll do the ramping on the bridge to increase the string angle though, that's really what I was thinking of as not necessary or effecting originality.

I hate to be without this guitar for a couple months, but I already spoke with Tom Jacobs this morning. I think I'll be sending her to Florida for a new lease on life

 

[davismanLV]

If it's going to TJ, then I think you're all set. He's the best!!

 

[Muckman]

If it's going to TJ, then I think you're all set. He's the best!!

I’ve barely had her for 48 hours, the new strings are just settling in…..I might develop separation anxiety while she’s gone

 

[jedzep]

...so you have another D40? It'll hold you until the guitar comes back, then you may think of saying bye-bye to the '80.

Before you pack it up, maybe you'd consider taking a drive to my old school mate's shop in Canton. Pat 'Manny' Cahill might get you by with a quick setup.

https://m.facebook.com/Amp-N-Guitar-Doctor-103365653743/

Amp N' Guitar Doctor, Contact Us

Classic Guitar and Amplifier sales, service, setups, vintage amps, custom work, service, repair, sales, trades

ampguitdoc.wixsite.com

 

[Muckman]

...so you have another D40? It'll hold you until the guitar comes back, then you may think of saying bye-bye to the '80.

Before you pack it up, maybe you'd consider taking a drive to my old school mate's shop in Canton. Pat 'Manny' Cahill might get you by with a quick setup.

https://m.facebook.com/Amp-N-Guitar-Doctor-103365653743/

Amp N' Guitar Doctor, Contact Us

Classic Guitar and Amplifier sales, service, setups, vintage amps, custom work, service, repair, sales, trades

ampguitdoc.wixsite.com

True on both counts. I do love the 80', but the general consensus on the lighter built Hobokens isn't overblown. This 67' D40 is pretty amazing, I can't wait to hear it with the proper torque on the bridge after the reset. Thanks for the info too! That’s good to know about your friends shop regardless if it's for this guitar. I’m pretty set on the idea of the neck reset though and it sounds like Tom is the guy for the job.

 

[Br1ck]

Don't consider a truss rod adjustment an action adjustment. Two very different things, related but different.

Don't ever shave a Brazilian bridge.

A neck reset will likely last decades. Don't wait so someone else gets the benefit. And yes, whatever you want to call it, guitars do "fold up." You can call it settling if you want. After a neck reset, you are starting the process all over again. There is no predictor of the life of your guitar's reset.

I had the works done. Bridge had been shaved. Hans had two left seven years ago. So a reset, new frets, nut saddle. and bridge were in order. Worth every dime.

 

[Muckman]

Don't consider a truss rod adjustment an action adjustment. Two very different things, related but different.

Don't ever shave a Brazilian bridge.

A neck reset will likely last decades. Don't wait so someone else gets the benefit. And yes, whatever you want to call it, guitars do "fold up." You can call it settling if you want. After a neck reset, you are starting the process all over again. There is no predictor of the life of your guitar's reset.

I had the works done. Bridge had been shaved. Hans had two left seven years ago. So a reset, new frets, nut saddle. and bridge were in order. Worth every dime.

Understood, the truss is set with just a slight relief. The saddle is barely 1/16", leaving no room for the action adjustment I would prefer.

The bridge is very thick, I remember the overall string height was a little over 3/8".......so, less the saddle it would be a bit more than 5/16". Trust me, I'm not going to shave the bridge.....I'm not even going to have it ramped.

I'm going to have Tom do the reset, refret, saddle...I believe the nut is good. Thanks for the information and sharing your experience with your Guild.

 

[Britbits]

Sounds like thats what I will need
I have a1978 D25

 

[Br1ck]

I have a pet peeve against having saddles shaved. It's kicking the can down the road to an even more expensive repair. Jerry Rosa had a Guild D 35 repair video where it was a very rare instance, like four or five in four decades of repair, where a truss rod adjustment, along with fret leveling and ramping the bridge staved off a neck reset. After harping truss rods as not being the cure, he kept saying this was a special circumstance.

Truth be told, most major work on these old Guilds are because their owners want to, not for economic reasons. Here is where price appreciation can be a benefit to keeping these old gems on the road. Gee, my guitar is worth something....

 

[Muckman]

Yeah, I’ll have more than I wanted to in this D40 for sure. It’s such a great guitar and piece of handcrafted history, it’s just worth it. And, like you said, keeping them on the road works out over time as they appreciate.

I’m very excited to hear the potential brought out of it when the neck and break angles are right.

 

[kostask]

I hate it when people shave a bridge. It is a shortcut that can have some repercussions down the road that I don't want to have on any of my instruments. Specifically, when you shave a bridge, you lose the geometry that the factory built the guitar with. As has been often stated here, the Guild factory had a variety of bridge heights to choose from when initially assembling the guitar, and would choose the bridges to suit the neck angle that the guitar was initially assembled with. When the bridge is shaved, that reference point is now gone, because you don't know what the original bridge height was. Yes, in the process of re-setting a neck, the luthier can get the angles all lined up, but now, you are playing with two variables, the neck angle and the bridge height. If the bridge height is left original, it is only the neck angle that needs to be corrected.

As well, for a person who is not experienced with the ins and outs of acoustic guitars, it can lead to a false sense of the state of the guitar. Using a straight edge, they use the standard "when placed on the fretboard, the bottom edge of the straight edge must meet at the top of the bridge" method to judge whether a neck re-set is necessary. A shaved bridge, if not noticed, is going to lead to a false conclusion that neck angle is fine, when in fact, it is NOT.

All you do is buy a short amount of time, and then add even more cost to a neck reset later. You pay to have the bridge shaved (and potentially adversely affect the sound of the guitar). Then you pay for a neck reset, and for removing the old bridge (now shaved) and having a new, proper height bridge put back on.