Modern electronics/connectors...

[chazmo]

Just a little rant for the-day...

I have a lot of experience mucking with computer electronics and integrated circuit boards that I've gained over the years. I was trying to replace a disk in an Apple backup storage device (known as an "AirPort Time Capsule") whose disk had died. Not unexpectedly, I failed. I had a feeling I might, and I only tried my hand at it because I didn't have to buy anything that I didn't already have. Also, I found a youtube video that made the surgery look pretty easy.

Well... here's the thing...

The connectors on these things are fragile. Some are even surface-mounted to circuit boards or flat cables and you have to know exactly how to work with them. The bottom line is that unless you know how to detach/separate them, they will tear. You can't just rock them and try to break them loose. Game over.

Anyway, I know weak connectors have been an issue for a long, long time, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to rant about it!

 

[Guildedagain]

It's an issue with a lot of connectors, and old plastics get brittle. You can get in trouble under the hood of a 20 year old car pretty fast, as well many connectors are very frustrating to disconnect, some have a tab that needs to be squeezed, some have to be lifted, and it's often impossible to see which is which.

 

[chazmo]

Similar issues with cars, GA, but not exactly the same.

After spending the bulk of my career working for a company that built computer equipment where customers were expected/required to replace components, it frustrates me that connectors are just an afterthought for most electronics builders. It's kind of like planned obsolescence, but not exactly. In many cases it's engineers being lazy; and in some cases it's cost.

 

[GAD]

They’re not an afterthought: they’re designed to meet a price point, and more importantly are not designed for consumer repair.

The Apple Time Capsule was a wonderful thing and I was sad when they discontinued it, but having been inside one it’s clear that it wasn’t meant to be serviced. I love Apple hardware but the majority is designed either for only Apple to repair or for the landfill upon failure.

I’ve owned probably 20+ Macbooks and the old ones were repairable. The new ones are all glues shut and even when you do get inside the guts are one SMD board with everything soldered on. You can’t even increase the memory on modern machines.

 

[Guildedagain]

Still watch movies and shows everynight through an old white Macbook into a 23" Cinema Display of the same vintage. The screen had to be replaced, a cable issue I think was, the sleep thingie or maybe the screen was dead. My neighbor lady said she charmed her way into this repair for free, my cost at the same Genius Bar, $500, ouch.

On a 13" Macbbook Pro for several years now, flawless performance, and zero need for antivirus nonsense.

Also still using an iPhone 6, works fine, but T Mobile really sucks in our area, long stretches of road starting just out of town, no service.

 

[tonepoet]

They’re not an afterthought: they’re designed to meet a price point, and more importantly are not designed for consumer repair.

This goes for guitar amplifiers, as well. Even after the point-to-point wiring era, you could do repairs and mods on early circuit boards in the 70s and 80s, even the early 90s, when you could de-solder parts from a board and replace them.

 

[jp]

I've had my eye on this company that's pursuing something I've wanted to see for years in the computer market. When gamers started building their own PCs over 20 years ago, I wished a company would spearhead doing this with modular laptops. Finally, a company started a few years ago, and I think they're busting open previous barriers to "right to repair."

Everything in their laptops is modular, replaceable, and upgradeable: case, bezel, mainboard, monitor, CPU, memory, etc. They have standardized plug-in expansion cards for memory cards, display ports, audio, ethernet, etc. And unlike Apple adapters, most cost under $20. Incredible! They fit both AMD and Intel chips, and you can pop out the keyboards to replace with your language of choice. Speakers, hinges, cooling systems, touchpads, Wifi cards, and batteries are standardized and replaceable. In fact, every part is replaceable. There are even guides on their site with instruction on how to replace or upgrade parts. Amazing! They're not perfect, but I have no doubt they'll keep improving.

It's exactly like my old Tristar vaccuum cleaner. No more disposable appliance consumerism necessary. I hope this becomes the future. I'm buying one for my next laptop to replace my Surface Pro.

Despite my enthusiastic evangelism, no affiliation.

 

[GAD]

I've had my eye on this company that's pursuing something I've wanted to see for years in the computer market. When gamers started building their own PCs over 20 years ago, I wished a company would spearhead doing this with modular laptops. Finally, a company started a few years ago, and I think they're busting open previous barriers to "right to repair."

Everything in their laptops is modular, replaceable, and upgradeable: case, bezel, mainboard, monitor, CPU, memory, etc. They have standardized plug-in expansion cards for memory cards, display ports, audio, ethernet, etc. And unlike Apple adapters, most cost under $20. Incredible! They fit both AMD and Intel chips, and you can pop out the keyboards to replace with your language of choice. Speakers, hinges, cooling systems, touchpads, Wifi cards, and batteries are standardized and replaceable. In fact, every part is replaceable. There are even guides on their site with instruction on how to replace or upgrade parts. Amazing! They're not perfect, but I have no doubt they'll keep improving.

It's exactly like my old Tristar vaccuum cleaner. No more disposable appliance consumerism necessary. I hope this becomes the future. I'm buying one for my next laptop to replace my Surface Pro.

Despite my enthusiastic evangelism, no affiliation.

Love the idea but I don’t see it ever gaining mainstream adoption.

Nothing is designed to be repaired anymore. “Right to repair” is a nice idea that won’t go anywhere because at this point it costs more to make things repairable and no one wants to pay more and the vast majority of users don’t care.

Look at smartphones. Aside from the battery how many people actually have the skills or inclination to fix a smartphone? I’ve done it, and it sucks.

And there are now generations of people who don’t expect to be able to repair consumer electronics.

Where “Right to repair” makes sense is things like farm tractors and cars, etc., where vendors are locking features and software repairs to licensing with the manufacturer. But the average consumer keeps on paying monthly or yearly fees for the ability to run software instead of buying it so once again people like us who want to fix things are the minority.

 

[fronobulax]

I remember a couple of decades ago when laptop vs. desktop was really a choice. The argument in favor of desktops was upgradability. But the reality was a lot of people never upgraded. I am so used to the idea that the phone or laptop just gets old enough and is thus replaced I am not sure I'd pay a premium for upgradability.

 

[GAD]

I remember a couple of decades ago when laptop vs. desktop was really a choice. The argument in favor of desktops was upgradability. But the reality was a lot of people never upgraded. I am so used to the idea that the phone or laptop just gets old enough and is thus replaced I am not sure I'd pay a premium for upgradability.

I hate the new normal. I still use a "desktop" and I still fill it with cards, but I'm pretty sure this will be the last such machine I'll be able to buy (at least in the Mac world).

Meanwhile, I've been thinking about building one of these:



A Z80 backplane-based computer that's all sorts of fun for a nerd like me in the "absolutely no practical use" sort of way. Admittedly I have a weakness for such things, but that's probably not a surprise to anyone.

Oh, and it's $225.

 

[jp]

Love the idea but I don’t see it ever gaining mainstream adoption.

Even if it doesn't gain mainstream popularity, I'd be happy if it becomes standard for an ecosystem that requires cyclical upgrading like computing.

Nothing is designed to be repaired anymore. “Right to repair” is a nice idea that won’t go anywhere because at this point it costs more to make things repairable and no one wants to pay more and the vast majority of users don’t care.

Well, that's the motivation behind it -- making their gear so that it is repairable. Their consumer pricing is solidly competitive with all the main manufacturers.

Though the majority of users don't care, I'm pretty sure these are aimed first and foremost at competent power users, IT pros, and gamers, where this company has been successful and growing so far.

Look at smartphones. Aside from the battery how many people actually have the skills or inclination to fix a smartphone? I’ve done it, and it sucks.

And there are now generations of people who don’t expect to be able to repair consumer electronics.

Where “Right to repair” makes sense is things like farm tractors and cars, etc., where vendors are locking features and software repairs to licensing with the manufacturer. But the average consumer keeps on paying monthly or yearly fees for the ability to run software instead of buying it so once again people like us who want to fix things are the minority.

I just think there are far more people who want to this for electronics then one might realize. This is done in Asia all the time, and people are much savvier there with electronics.

Also, this is vastly different from using spudgers, tweezers, and heat guns to peel batteries and connect tiny cables. These parts are plug and play, often using one screwdriver. All the expansion cards are externally installed exactly the same way and look almost identical.

If you check out the site, you might think differently. The splash site video shows how easy it is to swap out parts.

 

[GAD]

Even if it doesn't gain mainstream popularity, I'd be happy if it becomes standard for an ecosystem that requires cyclical upgrading like computing.


Well, that's the motivation behind it -- making their gear so that it is repairable. Their consumer pricing is solidly competitive with all the main manufacturers.

Though the majority of users don't care, I'm pretty sure these are aimed first and foremost at competent power users, IT pros, and gamers, where this company has been successful and growing so far.

I just think there are far more people who want to this for electronics then one might realize. This is done in Asia all the time, and people are much savvier there with electronics.

Also, this is vastly different from using spudgers, tweezers, and heat guns to peel batteries and connect tiny cables. These parts are plug and play, often using one screwdriver. All the expansion cards are externally installed exactly the same way and look almost identical.

If you check out the site, you might think differently. The splash site video shows how easy it is to swap out parts.

I’ve followed them since the start.

Don’t get me wrong: I’d love to see it become a booming success! I’m just so cynical and jaded after being in the industry since the ‘80s that I have a hard time believing it will succeed, or if it does succeed then some company like Lenovo will buy them and let it die.

i think the heat is making me cranky.

 

[chazmo]

This is great! I see my rant has struck a chord with many of you. I know most of you get what I'm bitching about.

Like I said earlier, cost and (engineer) laziness contribute to all this. It's up to consumers to care that their stuff is repairable. If you don't, then why should the engineers care to design for it? I admit, I'm old school. I've been working with electronics for over 40 years and this kind of a hot button for me.

Have fun with your stuff, but it it's something "irreplaceable" consider that it should be repairable. I really didn't like throwing out my AirPort yesterday, but most computing equipment is just not worth salvaging after 10 years or so.

 

[GAD]

The airport Time Machine (or whatever it was called) was a fabulous device that just freaking worked. I’ve not been able to put together a time machine backup solution that works as well.

Wifi tech has left that old device behind, though. With modern phones and laptops I get close to a gigabit connection on my wifi these days. That doesn’t help the kids who primarily use the Internet, but it’s fabulous for the inter-system stuff I do in the house.

Another thing that pushes for these tiny connectors is the never-ending push for smaller and lighter devices. The more plugs and sockets there are - especially those designed for human fingers, the larger the device needs to be.

 

[chazmo]

The airport Time Machine (or whatever it was called) was a fabulous device that just freaking worked. I’ve not been able to put together a time machine backup solution that works as well.

Wifi tech has left that old device behind, though. With modern phones and laptops I get close to a gigabit connection on my wifi these days. That doesn’t help the kids who primarily use the Internet, but it’s fabulous for the inter-system stuff I do in the house.

Another thing that pushes for these tiny connectors is the never-ending push for smaller and lighter devices. The more plugs and sockets there are - especially those designed for human fingers, the larger the device needs to be.

Exactly right about everything, GAD! Apple got out of the business of building routers because they couldn't keep up. And, yeah, the AirPort work(ed) great until the disk conked out. I have long since replaced my home's wifi with a mesh system, but the AirPort worked great for a few years in that capacity.

 

[fronobulax]

I've had my eye on this company that's pursuing something I've wanted to see for years in the computer market.

I check them every so often but they were not price competitive with the alternatives last I checked. Sometimes I am willing to pay a premium to make the world I leave behind a better place but this doesn't seem to be one of those for me.

A Z80 backplane-based computer

First Z80 I had to deal with was the main CPU for a radar control system, upgraded from an 8080. Next one was on a special purpose board designed for high throughput I/O that was a peripheral on a super-mini computer that was the radar control system

 

[GAD]

First Z80 I had to deal with was the main CPU for a radar control system, upgraded from an 8080. Next one was on a special purpose board designed for high throughput I/O that was a peripheral on a super-mini computer that was the radar control system

Mine was a TRS-80 Model III. Not as cool as your examples, but I learned a lot.

 

[gjmalcyon]

The connectors on these things are fragile. Some are even surface-mounted to circuit boards or flat cables and you have to know exactly how to work with them. The bottom line is that unless you know how to detach/separate them, they will tear. You can't just rock them and try to break them loose. Game over.

I recently replaced a MacBook Pro screen, and a few weeks later a Dell Latitude screen.

It's on You Tube - how hard could it be?

Pretty hard, particularly the MacBook.

The MacBook Pro was a 13" 2018 model and working inside it made me think of watchmakers: Tiny, fragile connectors; fine wires, tiny, tiny screws in a bunch of different sizes, lots of stuff filling every available space, etc.

The Dell was like residential electrical service rough-in - big ol' wires, meaty connectors, and a lot of empty space under the hood.

Both patients survived.

 

[jp]

I’ve followed them since the start.

Don’t get me wrong: I’d love to see it become a booming success! I’m just so cynical and jaded after being in the industry since the ‘80s that I have a hard time believing it will succeed, or if it does succeed then some company like Lenovo will buy them and let it die.

i think the heat is making me cranky.

Lol! I can see that. I just hope that they continue. It's something I've always wanted to see happen. I've repaired multiple iPhones for my family and have built desktop after desktop. It would be nice if the process were simpler laptops.

I check them every so often but they were not price competitive with the alternatives last I checked. Sometimes I am willing to pay a premium to make the world I leave behind a better place but this doesn't seem to be one of those for me

They're pretty competitive now, esp. for a gaming laptop, which my son is shopping for to use for CAD and 3D modeling. They're actually right on par with other makers for the fastest Ryzen Pro series CPUs. It would be cool if they survive in the market because it's a pretty great thing to just do simple swap outs to upgrade components like with a desktop.

 

[Prince of Darkness]

Mine was a TRS-80 Model III. Not as cool as your examples, but I learned a lot.

My experience of the Z80 was my brother's Sinclair ZX Spectrum, which sold in huge numbers in the UK. A mighty 16K of RAM and software was loaded using a cassette player. Great fun! Sold in America under the Timex Sinclair brand (Timex were also the main manufacturer for Sinclair in Britain), but nowhere near as successful.