Has any of you experienced binding detachment on their Guild guitars ? I have a Martin guitar which is quite a high end model, and I had the bad experience of a binding detachment, which made me bring it to a luthier that repaired it, quite well first time, but it happened again and this time the repair shows (and is quite ugly). I wondered if this kind of thing happened too with Guild guitars (it seems to happen quite a lot on recent Martin guitars)... I haven't read much about that on LTG (if any), so it made me think....
Loose binding
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RBSinTo
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My only Guild is a 2001 GAD jf 30 and while I've only owned it for the last two years, it shows no evidence of binding detachment.
And by way of full disclosure, neither has my 1974 Martin D-28, which I have owned since 1979.
However, there has been some talk about newer Martins having binding detachment problems on the Gibson website, often as rebuttal when comments are made about Gibson's quality control issues, so I take them for what they're worth.
RBSinTo
And by way of full disclosure, neither has my 1974 Martin D-28, which I have owned since 1979.
However, there has been some talk about newer Martins having binding detachment problems on the Gibson website, often as rebuttal when comments are made about Gibson's quality control issues, so I take them for what they're worth.
RBSinTo
davismanLV
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When binding comes loose it's usually a fairly easy repair, but the key is getting all the old glue off both the wood and the plastic, or changing the type of glue you use to compensate. Not sure why a reglue/repair would be noticeable. Another problem is on older guitars where the lacquer has yellowed and when the binding is flexed it chips off leaving a visibly more white spot than the old lacquered ones. Unless the binding is dark of course.
Also, eventually, plastic binding will out-gas and become brittle and will crack, break off, and crumble. I've seen this on some rather old Gibsons that pre-date any Guild, but I presume the same is true for Guild's bindings. I think it's just a question of age and exposure.
Having said that, just detachment from the body should be fairly easy to cure, Bernie. It certainly does happen on some Guilds. Now the binding may shrink or crack, but if it hasn't gotten brittle it should glue back on. As Tom said, a proper repair has to take some care to clean the affected areas before re-glueing. And, yes, when flexed, the binding may flake off some of the lacquer, making the repair somewhat obvious. But you can touch up those areas with yellowed NCL touch-up.
Having said that, just detachment from the body should be fairly easy to cure, Bernie. It certainly does happen on some Guilds. Now the binding may shrink or crack, but if it hasn't gotten brittle it should glue back on. As Tom said, a proper repair has to take some care to clean the affected areas before re-glueing. And, yes, when flexed, the binding may flake off some of the lacquer, making the repair somewhat obvious. But you can touch up those areas with yellowed NCL touch-up.
bobouz
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Martin has indeed had a recent systematic problem with loose bindings, beginning around 2012 & most often at the waist. These issues have occurred on USA-made models, and quite often on high end instruments. The problem has been thoroughly discussed in the UMGF’s ”Technical Info” section, with varying degrees of satisfaction regarding repairs.
As for Guilds, I’ve occasionally seen loose bindings, and had loose neck binding on my ‘97 Starfire III, which I repaired.
As for Guilds, I’ve occasionally seen loose bindings, and had loose neck binding on my ‘97 Starfire III, which I repaired.
(Some of) the bindings Martin use have a tendency to shrink a lot (according to what I read and heard), much more than those used by some of their contenders. The luthier I saw uses the same kind that Guild and Taylor use he told me, and said he never had a problem. A change in glue it is believed, would have increased the shrinkage's effects of celluloid bindings mainly, among those Martin use. I like the tone of my D-28, but I really wonder if its binding (grained ivory) has a lot to do with it ! As long as they would stick to it, I wouldn't want that again... Tom, the repair is noticeable on my guitar because the (acetone) glue used damaged the finish, the luthier told, I think. Does better go along with more fragile ?
I'm asking that because the celluloid grained ivory they used on my guitar, is the same they use on their "Authentic Series" (!) : according to a luthier on the UMGF (Arnoldguitars) celluloid bindings shrink more than twice as much as Boltaron (1/4" vs 1/8 to 1/16" on the whole guitar's perimeter), which obviously makes wonder why they still use it, and why not boltaron for instance (that they use on other guitars)... These guitars (Authentics) are top notch Vintage-like guitars (quite recently added to their line). Would Guilds DV-72 or 73/74 use that as well as an example ?
davismanLV
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If it's just NCL you may be able to repair the damage to the finish. Depending on if it's a burst or not. But just clear lacquer should be able to be fixed.
Thanks Tom : I'm hopeless at guitar care, and working on the finish sounds out of reach for me (too bad of an eye sight, and too clumsy). But maybe I will ask to a luthier in the town I live, if it's not too expensive to do the work then...
Hey, Bernie,
The Martin "Authentic" guitars are meant to be modern reproductions of old Martins. The intent was to make them similar to the originals, including materials and build artisanship, where possible. For example, I have lusted after a D-28 Authentic 1931 since 2013 when they were introduced. Even though these guitars have no truss rods (the originals didn't), I've owned a few Martins without TRs that are fine without them. Some of the Authentics are quite spectacular, and most are very expensive -- compared to any Guild, that is.
Anyway, the big difference here is that Guild's DV models, beginning back in Westerly, and even the Orpheum series from New Hartford were not reproductions of anything. They were meant to "sound" vintage, by whatever definition that really means. So whether or not they used old-school materials is really not a factor. To my knowledge, no DVs were built with old-fashioned bindings, but I don't really know. In the Martin case, it could be that they're trying very hard to copy the originals.
Yes, go talk to your luthier, Bernie. It really shouldn't be a big deal, and even if it's slightly discolored, you'll feel much better about having the binding properly attached. Just my $0.02.
The Martin "Authentic" guitars are meant to be modern reproductions of old Martins. The intent was to make them similar to the originals, including materials and build artisanship, where possible. For example, I have lusted after a D-28 Authentic 1931 since 2013 when they were introduced. Even though these guitars have no truss rods (the originals didn't), I've owned a few Martins without TRs that are fine without them. Some of the Authentics are quite spectacular, and most are very expensive -- compared to any Guild, that is.
Anyway, the big difference here is that Guild's DV models, beginning back in Westerly, and even the Orpheum series from New Hartford were not reproductions of anything. They were meant to "sound" vintage, by whatever definition that really means. So whether or not they used old-school materials is really not a factor. To my knowledge, no DVs were built with old-fashioned bindings, but I don't really know. In the Martin case, it could be that they're trying very hard to copy the originals.
Yes, go talk to your luthier, Bernie. It really shouldn't be a big deal, and even if it's slightly discolored, you'll feel much better about having the binding properly attached. Just my $0.02.
Oh the binding is properly attached already (if i understood well what you meant). As I told first post, I had the guitar repaired a second time, and this time it shows quite a lot ; the luthier told the (acetone) glue damaged the binding's finish +(I think) ; lines aren't straight anymore and so on (I think he [••••]ed up a bit)... Yes the old grained ivoroid binding is likely meant to be 'period correct' I believe, but the glue isn't (and while the binding's problem is not new, the less strong glue - 'environmental friendly' - doesn't fit anymore then, cos too many people end up with the issue now and on very expensive guitars too)... Thanks a lot anyway
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Strange that a DV-52 that's for sale right now has a binding problem, like one I've had on my martin. You made a relevant remark Chazmo about why there was no reason that Guild should have used similar ('faulty' - in relation to a rather weak glue used by now-) on their DV series, but coincidence or not, the issue is there too (same with Richard69 recent buy - DV-72 - I've just read)...(??) Probably just coincidences though