Long-term scientific "blind" acoustic string test

[dwasifar]

Do you cut the plain core off before measuring deflection?

No, I just let it hang out the back:

 

[Nuuska]

i see - you're measuring w what is left out after you cut the E-string. My first thought was that you measure that before installing strings. Hope they all are long enough . . .

Great job you're doing

 

[MacGuild]

[Interlude]

Time to play . . . Name that string brand!



The prize? The respect and admiration of your peers for all time. Just like on Iron Chef Japan.
Bonus admiration if you can name the Guild model. (Then again, the usual suspects probably can...)

 

[dwasifar]

[Interlude]

Time to play . . . Name that string brand!



The prize? The respect and admiration of your peers for all time. Just like on Iron Chef Japan.
Bonus admiration if you can name the Guild model. (Then again, the usual suspects probably can...)

DR Silver Stars?

 

[dwasifar]

i see - you're measuring w what is left out after you cut the E-string. My first thought was that you measure that before installing strings. Hope they all are long enough . . .

Great job you're doing

Thanks for saying so. No, I wouldn't clamp a string into that jig before installing it on the guitar. The setscrew might wind up damaging it in an area that winds up on the actual instrument.

If a string winds up too short to test that way, I might be able to make allowances for that, or else I'll just mark it down as unable to do that test for that string brand.

I will have to do it a little differently for round core strings, to keep the scraps from unraveling. For those I will need to crimp the string near the cut before cutting it off the guitar, and then trim the excess core wire to use that end for the deflection test. Otherwise they will unravel and affect the results.

 

[Nuuska]

How about modifying your test clamp - instead of the screw pressing the string sharp - Drill large enough hole for the string to allow a dowel be put on top of the string - and the screw is pushing the dowel. This would allow a new string w bare core cut off be clamped wo harming it.

 

[dwasifar]

How about modifying your test clamp - instead of the screw pressing the string sharp - Drill large enough hole for the string to allow a dowel be put on top of the string - and the screw is pushing the dowel. This would allow a new string w bare core cut off be clamped wo harming it.

There's a metal sleeve (a 1/8" roll pin) inside the hole that the string goes through, with a cutaway section to allow the setscrew to contact the string. I did this so that the string would be relatively contained and not make a groove in the wood where it exits the hole, potentially affecting the results. So I'm not worried about deflecting the string. It works ok right now and I don't want to change it unless I need to. But I'm glad I got you thinking.

EDIT: Oh, and also, the tip of the setscrew is ground flat, so it's flat metal to metal clamping the string.

 

[dwasifar]

[Interlude]

Time to play . . . Name that string brand!



The prize? The respect and admiration of your peers for all time. Just like on Iron Chef Japan.
Bonus admiration if you can name the Guild model. (Then again, the usual suspects probably can...)

DR Silver Stars?

No?

 

[MacGuild]

No?

No.

(Sorry for the late response.)

 

[dwasifar]

Second day evaluation of String Set B.

I played them for a while tonight to re-evaluate. These could not be more different from the previous set. Even the small trace of new-string brightness these had is now completely absent. They are warm and mellow-sounding; the emphasis is on the lower midrange and upper bass. Tuning stability remains rock steady. String-to-string balance is nice, with no one string standing out from the others. Playability is just fine too; some strings feel like they're fighting you, but not these, and the feel under the fingers is smooth and pleasant.

So why do I feel like I have to knock the grades down a little bit?

Well, for starters, the mellowness comes at the expense of volume. Now that they're starting to break in, they've become quieter; a little too quiet. And although the mellow tone is pretty, it costs dynamics. These would be fine if I were only playing soft ballads, but I suspect that as they continue to age in, they won't be suited for more energetic numbers. Also, they are already a little bit too muted for me when fingerpicking.

The tonal balance makes me think of the sound you get from Monel or Nickel Bronze. Granted I haven't tried either of those on this guitar yet, but I know generally what they sound like and how they differ from phosphor bronze, and these seem like they lean in that direction tonally. So if you like those alternative alloys, then this set might be something to try. But I suspect my final verdict on these will be that they are just not bright enough.

Second day grades:

• Construction A
• Volume B-
• Playability A
• Tone B+

 

[dwasifar]

Second day evaluation of String Set B.

I played them for a while tonight to re-evaluate. These could not be more different from the previous set. Even the small trace of new-string brightness these had is now completely absent. They are warm and mellow-sounding; the emphasis is on the lower midrange and upper bass. Tuning stability remains rock steady. String-to-string balance is nice, with no one string standing out from the others. Playability is just fine too; some strings feel like they're fighting you, but not these, and the feel under the fingers is smooth and pleasant.

So why do I feel like I have to knock the grades down a little bit?

Well, for starters, the mellowness comes at the expense of volume. Now that they're starting to break in, they've become quieter; a little too quiet. And although the mellow tone is pretty, it costs dynamics. These would be fine if I were only playing soft ballads, but I suspect that as they continue to age in, they won't be suited for more energetic numbers. Also, they are already a little bit too muted for me when fingerpicking.

The tonal balance makes me think of the sound you get from Monel or Nickel Bronze. Granted I haven't tried either of those on this guitar yet, but I know generally what they sound like and how they differ from phosphor bronze, and these seem like they lean in that direction tonally. So if you like those alternative alloys, then this set might be something to try. But I suspect my final verdict on these will be that they are just not bright enough.

Second day grades:

• Construction A
• Volume B-
• Playability A
• Tone B+

Interesting follow-up: my wife was listening to me play these strings a few moments ago, and (unprompted) she had exactly the same evaluation as I did. Mellow, warm, pretty tone, which she characterized as "folky," but not loud or forward enough for a general-purpose string.

She is not a musician, but she's my biggest fan and I know she listens closely.

 

[dwasifar]

I am really divided about string set B. I've been playing them every day. Sometimes I hear their virtues more than their weaknesses, and I think, yeah, I'd buy these again, and I should raise the grades. And then sometimes it's the other way around, and I think I shouldn't. Often that pivot of viewpoint comes within the same song.

I'm confusing myself.

 

[plaidseason]

I am really divided about string set B. I've been playing them every day. Sometimes I hear their virtues more than their weaknesses, and I think, yeah, I'd buy these again, and I should raise the grades. And then sometimes it's the other way around, and I think I shouldn't. Often that pivot of viewpoint comes within the same song.

I'm confusing myself.

I understand this, for sure.

It's funny, for a while I'd been religiously using DR Sunbeams on my short scale guitars. But last year around this time, my local shop only had DR Veritas, and I picked up a couple of packs. I've had that same set on my parlor guitar for close to year. And for a long while I kept missing the Sunbeams. But then the strings became fairly dead, in a good way and I couldn't take them off. But eventually the intonation just kind of sounded off and the they were a little too dead. And so I put on a fresh set of Sunbeams. And now I definitely miss the played-in Veritas. I'll give it a couple weeks and hope for the best.

 

[dwasifar]

This is not part of the string test per se, but I thought I might share it anyway. I have another dreadnought guitar, a Taylor 710, that uses 13s. Today I restrung it, and pulled a brand out of my string box that I hadn't tried before: Pyramid.

I had high hopes for the Pyramids, especially because I think they were expensive, but I have to say that I am not impressed with these Pyramid phosphor bronze 13s, at least initially. They seem very stiff and, I don't know, uncooperative. Like they're fighting being played.

Again, not part of the official test, but string-related so I figured why not mention it. Anyone else have opinions on Pyramid?

 

[dwasifar]

Darn it, I've just caused myself a problem with keeping the test "blind."

One of the upcoming test sets is GHS Americana, which I have never previously used. But today I put a set or those on the Taylor, and I discovered they have gold-colored plain strings. So now, unless I change something, I will know them when they come up in the test.

The only thing I can think of to mitigate this is to change the note to my wife that I put on the DR Veritas, so that she brings the gold-colored strings from that set when she unpacks them, and treat the DR and GHS sets as a pair; test them blind in sequence without looking at either until they're both evaluated. Kind of like I'm doing with the two D'Addario sets. But now that I think of it, that won't work either, because the core wires on the GHS wound strings are gold-colored whereas the DR are steel. Darn it. I wish I had not discovered this detail before they came up in the test.

Not sure whether to take them out of the test, or just try to pretend I don't know what they are.

 

[dwasifar]

Two week evaluation of String Set B.

This is day 14 with these strings, and I am still more or less of two minds about them, primarily because they're really good for some things I play, and not up to the task for others, as previously documented.

For quieter music, well, it is hard to fault them. They sound warm, detailed, well-balanced, harmonious, free of metallic overtones, just generally pretty and beautiful. Bass is full and present but not overwhelming; trebles are restrained, sweet, not jangly. Overall tonal focus is in the low midrange. If I'm alternating between cowboy chords and chords up the neck, the dynamics stay consistent. Feel is just splendid; they're smooth and flexy, easy to play. If I only played the more mellow half of my set lists, I would buy these strings over and over.

But if I'm playing something more energetic, and I need more volume, I hit them harder and everything falls apart. They become uncontrolled, almost rattly. I don't really get much added volume, either. It's like they have a ceiling, and beyond that ceiling they can't really move the guitar's top much more. My guess is that this is me unconsciously hitting them too hard, trying to get that volume, and that's why they sound uncontrolled, but dammit, if I need the volume, I need the volume.

So, final judgement: Fine for folk, inadequate for rock. I wish they could be outstanding across the spectrum, but I guess everything's a tradeoff.

Two week grades:

• Construction A
• Volume C+
• Playability A
• Tone B+

And now I get to go find out what they are. No guesses this time. I know I've seen that black and white color coding before, so when I go get the package from my wife's office I'll probably smack my forehead and go "Oh yeah!" Off I go to get them.

*Jeopardy music plays*

String Set B is Dunlop DAP1254.

Well, that's kind of a surprise. My previous experience with Dunlop in other gauges (13s) doesn't match with this experience. And I have to say, for budget strings (which these are), they performed quite well within their limits. I just wish their limits were a little higher.

I'm not sure yet whether I'll leave them on for much longer, but of course I'll report when String Set C goes on.

 

[Stuball48]

dwasifar
Do you think, that now you have identified the first set, you will have a more educated-persuasive idea of what other set might be and that cloud objectivity. I would lean toward no identification of any sets until completion of experiment.
Either way, I really enjoy you views.

 

[dwasifar]

dwasifar
Do you think, that now you have identified the first set, you will have a more educated-persuasive idea of what other set might be and that cloud objectivity. I would lean toward no identification of any sets until completion of experiment.
Either way, I really enjoy you views.

That's been suggested more than once, and I agree that would be a bit more "blind," but at the cost of making this thread useless to readers until all the evaluations were completed. Nobody's going to wait a year to find out what String Set A was; they want to know as soon as the evaluation of that set is done. That's why I spiked the sample pool with multiple sets of one brand, to kind of mix it up a little more in that regard.

 

[geoguy]

just try to pretend I don't know what they are

That seems reasonable to me.

 

[dwasifar]

Best I can do.