Kinda New to LTG and owner of the a Starfire XII - long post

kpsta

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Hey there, everyone. I apologize in advance if this has a Penthouse Letters sound to it... :oops:

I'm fairly new to LTG, but I've been playing far more than posting as of late. I'm from Houston - and an upright bassist by training for the past 20 years, but I started playing electric guitar about 8 years ago. I was always a Rickenbacker devotee and I have a great Burgandy 360 that has been my main guitar for a while. I also have a sunburst Gibson Custom Shop NR Firebird with P90s that I picked up earlier this year.

So why am I here? Prior to this summer, I'd never really played a Guild or even paid any attention to them. I had been vaguely looking at the old Epiphones (Coronets, Wilshires, & Crestwoods), but finding a 12-string has been at the top of the list for a while. Aside from a Rick 660-12 though, no other 12-string Rick has been comfortable to play (for me, big upright bass player hands + tiny cramped necks = not playing chords below about the 3rd fret). Unfortunately though, I'd never really liked the sound of the solid body Ricks - just too thin-sounding. I found the same thing with Fender XIIs and the few Firebird XIIs and Wilshire XIIs I've come across. There's even a Gibson 335-12 in my local guitar store, but it just didn't cut it.

Back in June, I was in Chicago on a business trip back and I wandered into the Chicago Music Exchange. It's about 3 times the size of the stores I have access to locally, and I promptly began drooling. It took me about an hour of walking before I came across my new favorite guitar: a 1966 Guild Starfire XII

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It was just hanging on the bottom row surrounded by other semi-hollowbodies. Just amazing grain on the mahogany...

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Picking it up the first time just made the hair on my neck stand up. I sat on the couch... went through all those cowboy chords that give me trouble on other 12-strings... no buzzing, in-tune, no fat-fingered mis-frettings. And it had this crazy, almost harsh-sounding, but still rich texture to everything I played. It almost sounded like I was plugged into an amp with a bit of overdrive, but there was no amp within 20 feet.

I took it back to one of the amp rooms and kinda saw the guys behind the counter laughing a little. I must have looked a bit awestruck. I plugged it into the nearest AC-30 - no pedals, left the reverb & trem off, and dialed in my normal, bedroom volume Rick settings. Wow. Immediately, I could tell it was a totally different kind of instrument from any 12-string I've ever played. So many different sounds came out of it based on how I adjusted the knobs... and all of them were amazing. That happens so rarely with any guitar, let alone a 12-string.

Long story long, I talked them down on the price ($3,600 was pretty steep) had her shipped back to Texas the next day. Shipping it home instead of taking it with me cut out the absurd ~10% tax, so that was nice. As it turns out, a prior owner was from the Dallas area (as the old tattered business card and Dallas arena-rock style VIP pass stickers on the beat up case would indicate). Yay, this baby's back in Texas where she belongs. :D

I haven't been on LTG though because I have been playing it so much. Here she is at home with my AC-30CC1:

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I kind of wish the pickguard was there for the sake of being original, and I have absolutely no idea if everything else is original - but frankly, it sounds so amazing, that I just don't care.

I do have a question though... anyone have any idea what color this is? There's clearly some yellowing from all the cigarette smoke, but I can't tell if the original color was natural, amber, brown, or red. I guess it's possible that it's been refinished at some point, but I kind of doubt it.
 

bassmyf

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Hard to tell the color for certain from the photos, but it looks like red to me. Check the label in the upper f hole and see if has a CH ( cherry ) or anything else written by the serial #. Very nice guitar. Congrats, and welcome aboard.
 

adorshki

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kpsta said:
Hey there, everyone. I apologize in advance if this has a Penthouse Letters sound to it... :oops:
So who needs Penthouse letters when we've got this place? :lol: NICE SCORE! Thanks for sharing! Welcome aboard!
 

kpsta

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bassmyf said:
Hard to tell the color for certain from the photos, but it looks like red to me. Check the label in the upper f hole and see if has a CH ( cherry ) or anything else written by the serial #. Very nice guitar. Congrats, and welcome aboard.

Unfortunately, the writing on the label isn't too clear. I can make out the serial # (DC-147) and the model (clearly Starfire XII), but what looks like some additional scribbling is obscured because it's on the edge where the wreath-looking design is.
 

stclrob

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I played that particular SF-XII many times. Incredible instrument. Very happy to see it went to a LTGer. Welcome!
 

mad dog

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Very pretty Guild you have. It is causing me sweaty palms and palpitations.
MD
 

kakerlak

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PICT0089.jpg


Nice '66, here's mine! DC-199. They are nice electric 12s and you're right, they do have a brash, agressive sound, real sweet. The later ones from the early 70s (that have the larger pickups) sound cool, too.

Yours is real pretty and guild had a lot of that ribbon-grain mahogany back in the 60s, great stuff! I must admit when I saw yours I first thought "refin" b/c they are usually a Gibson SG-like bright cherry red. It is possible it may have faded to brown or that it was a natural or other color that's yellowed. Seeing how smooth and shiny it is on the back of the neck makes me think it's probably the original finish, though. The tip to look at the label is a good one- often Guild put little 2-3 letter abbreviations after the model name to indicate finish. The other thing you can do is remove the tailpiece next time you change strings. The finish underneath it (on the butt end of the guitar) should be pretty close to original color, since it won't have been exposed to light, etc.

As for pickguard, it might be hard to find one. Since there were two different pickup sizes, there's going to be at least two different pickguard types out there. They also changed the neck joint in '67 or so to move more frets clear of the body and that may mean there's actually three variations of pickguard. I do believe some folks here have had pickguards custom made and, if you'd like, I can provide a color scan of mine for that purpose. All that having been said, there's a reason so many of these are missing the pickguards. They sit high on the guitar and close to the high E string. A lot of folks feel they get in the way of playing. For me, they only "sort of" get in the way and I've left them on b/c I like the way they look and wanted to protect the finish.

[EDIT] I just noticed something: Yours has the same bridge mine has, which is a metal, intonation-adjustable model made by Hagstrom, which Guild used on a some other electrics from the period. Starfires are "supposed" to have a rosewood archtop-style bridge top and all the others I've seen do. Mine was the only one I've seen with the Hagstrom, but it was also the oldest one I'd seen until yours came along. What we need is for Hans Moust, our resident expert and author of the fabulous Guild book (which you owe it to yourself to buy) to chime in. It makes me think they at least started out using the metal bridges on these XIIs and then switched at some point fairly early on.
 

kakerlak

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OK, I found the thread talking about making custom pickguards. From looking at the picture, I realize there are three different shapes for these pickguards: 1) the earliest, like mine and yours, with small pickup cutouts and long front part, for the old-style neck joint, 2) the middle range, with the shorter front, for the new neck joint and still small humbuckers, and 3) later style with the new neck joint and large humbucker cutouts. So, if you end up going this route, let me know and I'll get you a scan of mine next to a ruler and it should be the exact correct spec for your guitar.

It was member cc_mac who had this done by Paul Setzer.

Thread link here.
 

The Guilds of Grot

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Ooh, ooh, ooh, can I play?

Here's my '66 #DC478

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As you can see mine has the rosewood bridge.
The metal bridge was on the higher end Starfires
and also offered as an option.
 

dapmdave

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You guys are killin' me. Especially like that 'hog.

Dave
 

kakerlak

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The Guilds of Grot said:
Ooh, ooh, ooh, can I play?

Here's my '66 #DC478

100_6407.jpg


As you can see mine has the rosewood bridge.
The metal bridge was on the higher end Starfires
and also offered as an option.

Yes, forgot about yours, Grot. Very much a twin to mine (except for the bridge)! I wonder though if the Hagstrom bridge wasn't "standard" in the beginning. The angle of the neck joint on mine is such that the taller rosewood bridge would render it unplayable. The Hagstrom bridge is all the way down and action is just a hair higher than I'd like (neck 100% straight, neck joint solid).

It's hard to image, if they intended to offer rosewood bridges standard and Hagstroms by request, that they'd bother to construct the guitar with a different neck angle depending on what bridge it was supposed to end up with. I'd much more suspect that they'd just make the guitars all the same and then put whatever bridge was ordered on it in final assembly, which makes me wonder if these very earliest '66s were all leaving the factory with Hagstroms.
 

mgod

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Love these, I've got a 66 in Ebony Grain. I recommend the Pyramid 12 set for them, the low strings are flats.

DS
 

Guildmark

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We've also seen emerald green ones, and Jahn had a nice red one. His was real bright, which makes me think that yours would really have had to fade a lot to get where it is. I'm thinking it actually could have been brown originally. We've seen that before, too, but it's rare.

Sure is pretty! Congratulations!
Oh, Santa.....!
 

hansmoust

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The Guilds of Grot said:
Ooh, ooh, ooh, can I play? Here's my '66 #DC478

Hey Kurt,

You really gotta keep track of those numbers! Your sunburst SF-XII is # DC-241. #DC-478 was a black one that ended up in California, or to be more precise ......... here:

mgod said:
Love these, I've got a 66 in Ebony Grain. I recommend the Pyramid 12 set for them, the low strings are flats. DS

So, you know it’s in good hands now!

I have an ‘Ebony’ one too:

SFXIIBlack_front.jpg


A little bit different from the ones that were already posted since it has DeArmond pickups and a Master Volume.

SFXII_Black.jpg


Really great sounding guitar that I prefer to play with the pickguard removed.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

The Guilds of Grot

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Oops! :oops: I guess after I sold the Ebony Grain '66 and got the Sunburst '66 I never changed the serial number on my list!

Thanks for pointing this out to me Hans. Though I have to wonder how you knew the number to the Sunburst. Then again maybe I shouldn't ask! :oops:

Interesting that the Ebony Grain one ended up back in Califorina. I bought it pre-ebay from a guy named Michael Lee from California who used to put out a really cool vintage instrument list. It was always filled with those oriental "Lucky Cats".

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After I got the Sunburst, I traded the Ebony Grain to Jim Pasch at Outlaw Guitars up in Greenbrook NJ. He swapped me the SF-XII for these two;

A D-46;

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And a X-100 Bladerunner;

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Jim then sold off, or got moved out of Outlaw Guitars and opened I think a place first in Raritan and now has Hoboken Guitars. Jim's a real nice guy, he used to organize the New York Guitar Show. They were some cool shows back in the day. (Wow, I think I just veered my own post! :lol: )

Well I'm glad you're enjoying the Ebony grain mgod!
 

mgod

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I bought it from Hoboken Vintage in 99. Susanna Hoffs, who I had just been producing, also has one; can't remember the exact number but it was a few before or after mine.

DS
 

hansmoust

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The Guilds of Grot said:
I guess after I sold the Ebony Grain '66 and got the Sunburst '66 I never changed the serial number on my list!

Thanks for pointing this out to me Hans. Though I have to wonder how you knew the number to the Sunburst. Then again maybe I shouldn't ask!

Hey Kurt,

Actually, I think you don't want to know! Or maybe I should say, you probably would get dizzy if you should see the amount of info I have in my database. Most of it is a card based database, so looking stuff up is often time consuming but it is really fun, since you get to see a lot of things that you almost forgot about. Going through a computer based database is really different in that way. But anyway, collecting data can be as addictive as collecting guitars! It's cheaper though!

I have a question re. your Bladerunner. Is it the lighting in the photo or does your X-100 really has a rosewood fingerboard?
Or is it just a brownish piece of ebony?

Just curious!

Hans
 
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