In vintage guitars, where do you draw the line on originality?

[Br1ck]

The value killer by far to a serious collector is that first non original part, down to the tuner screws. After that it is a sliding scale of devaluation, with refin being high on the list. Take an all original guitar and fix the things that need fixing in order to play it, and the value goes down. That is the reason people might afford instruments otherwise unobtainable.

 

[musicofanatic]

The value killer by far to a serious collector is that first non original part, down to the tuner screws. After that it is a sliding scale of devaluation, with refin being high on the list. Take an all original guitar and fix the things that need fixing in order to play it, and the value goes down. That is the reason people might afford instruments otherwise unobtainable.

I do not moan about the odd screw changed, or even a proper refin (like my black ES-295). If a guitar will not properly operate with its original potentiometers, then, by all means, change 'em. All of this makes 'em affordable to poor me, as you state.

 

[The Retro Rocker]

Playability and tone. And whatever it takes to achieve them. New saddle and nut, and K&K, are all I’ve done to my acoustics. My electrics get locking tuners, strap locks, and string-through Bigsbys.

 

[richardp69]

I'm not a collector, I just like guitars. I don't much care if original parts have been replaced if the reason was they were just bad and wouldn't work or to get the sound you're looking for out of the guitar.

I can't envision a more lousy situation than having an old, vintage and very cool guitar (regardless of brand) that just plays or sounds horrible. I mean, what's the point in that?

I do like, and do attempt, to get my original investment back when I sell a guitar but very often I don't. And, I keep telling myself that's o.k. because I had a chance to own and play the guitar for whatever period of time I had it. And that's worth a lot, at least to me it is.

 

[HeyMikey]

Hey Donny!

Man, if you can can cope with those six-on-a-plank tuners that came on most vintage Guild 12-strings, more power to you.

For me, there's just way too much play in them. It's maddening -- you have to tune flat and ease slowly up to pitch, and if you go too far, you have to tune flat and try again.

I spend a lot of time with my 12-strings, and I play in lots of open tunings, so I'm constantly tuning and retuning. Except for the few that came with decent tuners (my JF-30-12 and my F412) every one of my 12-strings (a dozen or more) has upgraded tuners -- most of them 18:1 Grovers. And for me, every one is better for it.

Tuning 12-strings is already like chasing your tail, so anything that makes that less of a chore, I'm all for.

I just picked up some Grover minis for my F312 for this exact reason. Yes, I will keep the originals with the guitar for originality sake when it comes time to sell it. However I highly doubt they will ever be put back on, certainly not by me. Tuners absolutely should be replaced or upgraded if needed.

Electronics as well. I generally don’t prefer under saddle pickups as to me they deaden the acoustic sound, and some sound thin and artificial amplified. Upgrading would not bother me in the least. Adding electronics to an acoustic is another change that doesn’t bother me. Then again I don’t buy what most collectors consider collectibles.

 

[Vermonter]

My feeling is... it depends why you’re buying them. If it’s as an investment, the more original and better the condition the better chance it will increase in value. But that’s obvious. I never buy guitars as an investment, although I have no doubt I may sell most of them when I’m old and in the way. I’m 64... when does that happen? Some I’ll never sell. They’re family. I buy guitars because I fall in love with them. I often buy beat up guitars and get them fixed up. I like to rescue them. I look for original parts, but sometimes they’re unavailable, especially for a guitar like... oh... say... a ‘53 X-220. As far as tuners, some of the old tuners suck, but if you change them so your guitar stays in tune... keep the originals for sure. I wouldn’t go drilling holes all over the place on a headstock to install new tuners though.

I think the first line of my signature spells out my opinion on what role “all original” plays in my decision to buy a guitar. It’s really not their fault.

 

[walrus]

I look for original parts, but sometimes they’re unavailable, especially for a guitar like... oh... say... a ‘53 X-220.

I think the first line of my signature spells out my opinion on what role “all original” plays in my decision to buy a guitar. It’s really not their fault.

Love to see some pics of the '53 X-220!

walrus

 

[Vermonter]

Love to see some pics of the '53 X-220!

walrus

I thought I posted some. It was the one that was changed to a lefty and I changed it back. Let me see what I posted. Maybe I only think I pisted a bunch of them.

 

[kostask]

Just so this may be of help for anybody looking to upgrade tuners in the future: it is no longer necessary to drill headstocks out for replacement tuners, if you get the tuners from Hipshot, or Graphtec. Both vendors have come up with ways to mount their tuners onto headstocks without redrilling. Hipshot uses the Universal Mounting Plate (UMP) and Graphtec uses a similar system, but a variation with their Ratio tuners. The Hipshot UMP system uses a pair of metal "universal" plates for acoustic guitars that locks the tuners in place. The Hipshot tuners can be closed (15:1 tuning ratio) or open back (18:1 tuning ratio); the open back tuners are a little lighter. There are also locking tuners and staggered post 6 in line tuners, but as they are intended for electric guitars, they are not really applicable here. I changed over a couple of guitars using this system, and it works well. You can put the Hipshot tuners in really fast, and just put the originals away until it comes time to sell the guitar, then just put the original tuners back on. No luthier required, no multiple drill holes for each tuner post. Only caveat is that the tuner post holes must be 10mm.

I cannot speak to the Graphtec tuners, as I have no personal experience with them, but there are Youtube videos about them.

 

[Default]

I put Hipshots on a Gibson LP Special with the robotuners. Highly recommended.

 

[musicofanatic]

Hmmm...does not seem like the Hipshot system is applicable to most vintage guitars

 

[kostask]

the only limitation is the need for 10mm tuning peg holes. To put the old tuners back on, just use conversion bushings. Other than that, there shouldn't be an issue.