I need a semi-hollow in my life and am considering a Starfire. But which one?

[GAD]

Ok, so I feel like I'm back to ground zero. I had thought the I DC was the most low end model of the Starfire and made in Indonesia. And a NS was the highest end Starfire and made in Korea.

So what are exactly the NS MIK models please?

That's a moving target and Guild (like all companies these days) doesn't want you to think about it. Guild recently sort of soft-retired the S100 and then reintroduced it. It used to be made in Korea and now it's made in Indonesia. The same seems to be happening with Starfires.

 

[GAD]

You can generally tell the Korean guitars because they have a higher price, but that's really not a great metric.

 

[GGJaguar]

So what are exactly the NS MIK models please?

For the Starfire line (since that is what you are mostly considering): the Starfire II (discontinued), Starfire III, Starfire IV, Starfire IV-ST, Starfire IV-12ST, Starfire V, and Starfire VI are MIK.

 

[J.G.2024]

As a collector of US-Made Guilds, I find most modern made Korean guitars to be very similar, probably because many of them are made in the same plant. I find the Korean Guilds to be on the high end of the current crop but I often find many of them to be sort of... soulless if that makes sense.

Ok, so you find modern Korean made guitars soulless. But not older Korean ones? How do you define "modern"?

 

[mavuser]

Ok, so I feel like I'm back to ground zero. I had thought the I DC was the most low end model of the Starfire and made in Indonesia. And a NS was the highest end Starfire and made in Korea.

So what are exactly the NS MIK models please?

I don't think too many members here know the answers to these questions. We are learning a lot from you!

Speaking of the highest quality SF-4 (whatever they call them now) imports, they are made in Korea, and they are reissue clones of a Guild SF-4 from the 60's. That is why it says Guild on the headstock. the big difference from vintage is the heavy polyurethane finish, which some people are fine with, and some people do not like; and also the pickups are MIK re-issues, typically the "LB1/mini-humbuckers." Opinions vary on those pickups, some say they are mismatched, but i played a reissue Guild T-bird with those same pickups, and they sounded great- but they are obviously not the same as the original 60's mini-humbuckers, to which they look identical. Again the entire guitar is a clone of an original SF-4. Whearas DeArmond has a diffferent headstock, different pickups, and possibly other minor differences.

Generally the NS SF's made in Korea should be distinguishable from the ones made in China or Indonesia, one way or another. Certainly the price. Also the SF 1 SC is not just a SF 1 DC with a single cut. they are different guitars, the neck is mounted at a different fret (14 vs 18!), and the SF 1 SC is a new design, with a center block and a drilled bridge and stop tail- this is not a reissue of any specific vintage Guild, SF or otherwise. The "SF-1 DC" should be essentially a SF-4 clone, but might not be called the "SF-1 DC" if it was built in Korea- It may simply be called the "NS SF-4-ST (stop tail)" (or 5 or 6, if fitted with those upgrades). Anything called SF-1...I would suspect was -not- built in Korea, but I am not positive.

This is a good seller on ebay. They sell "open box" typically brand new Guilds as used, for great prices. you can see they have open box *Korean SF-4 & 5 for sale for $825-850, and they also have SF-1 DC made in China or Indonesia for $425. If you look at all of the offerings, it appears the Koreans are called SF-IV-ST and the non-Koreans are called SF-1-DC (correlate the names with the pricing). The Koreans definitley sell a lot faster, and will be discontiuned as it appears. This guy on ebay has been at it for a long time-

Guild SF-V Starfire Semi-Hollow 335 Mahogany Electric Guitar Bigsby W/Case Black | eBay

The Starfire V’s all-mahogany body features an arched top and back, with dual f holes, elegant ivory white body binding, black/white purfling and center-block construction. Body Shape Starfire™ V. Truss Rod Wrench 7mm Hex Truss Rod Wrench.

www.ebay.com

 

[J.G.2024]

That's a moving target and Guild (like all companies these days) doesn't want you to think about it. Guild recently sort of soft-retired the S100 and then reintroduced it. It used to be made in Korea and now it's made in Indonesia. The same seems to be happening with Starfires.

Yes, I have noticed that. Almost like everybody is ashamed to admit they are made in "China". I guess this is the reason for the whole "Crafted in China" thing, which I find quite honestly, hilarious.

 

[J.G.2024]

For the Starfire line (since that is what you are mostly considering): the Starfire II (discontinued), Starfire III, Starfire IV, Starfire IV-ST, Starfire IV-12ST, Starfire V, and Starfire VI are MIK.

Ok, so after all, it doesn't include the I DC then. Only SF II, III, IV,V and VI. So the SF I, meaning the I DC, is not a NS and is not MIK. Or what am I missing?

 

[GGJaguar]

Correct. The SF I DC is part of the Newark Street series and is made in Indonesia.

 

[J.G.2024]

I don't think too many members here know the answers to these questions. We are learning a lot from you!

Speaking of the highest quality SF-4 (whatever they call them now) imports, they are made in Korea, and they are reissue clones of a Guild SF-4 from the 60's. That is why it says Guild on the headstock. the big difference from vintage is the heavy polyurethane finish, which some people are fine with, and some people do not like; and also the pickups are MIK re-issues, typically the "LB1/mini-humbuckers." Opinions vary on those pickups, some say they are mismatched, but i played a reissue Guild T-bird with those same pickups, and they sounded great- but they are obviously not the same as the original 60's mini-humbuckers, to which they look identical. Again the entire guitar is a clone of an original SF-4. Whearas DeArmond has a diffferent headstock, different pickups, and possibly other minor differences.

Generally the NS SF's made in Korea should be distinguishable from the ones made in China or Indonesia, one way or another. Certainly the price. Also the SF 1 SC is not just a SF 1 DC with a single cut. they are different guitars, the neck is mounted at a different fret (14 vs 18!), and the SF 1 SC is a new design, with a center block and a drilled bridge and stop tail- this is not a reissue of any specific vintage Guild, SF or otherwise. The "SF-1 DC" should be essentially a SF-4 clone, but might not be called the "SF-1 DC" if it was built in Korea- It may simply be called the "NS SF-4-ST (stop tail)" (or 5 or 6, if fitted with those upgrades). Anything called SF-1...I would suspect was -not- built in Korea, but I am not positive.

This is a good seller on ebay. They sell "open box" typically brand new Guilds as used, for great prices. you can see they have open box *Korean SF-4 & 5 for sale for $825-850, and they also have SF-1 DC made in China or Indonesia for $425. If you look at all of the offerings, it appears the Koreans are called SF-IV-ST and the non-Koreans are called SF-1-DC (correlate the names with the pricing). The Koreans definitley sell a lot faster, and will be discontiuned as it appears. This guy on ebay has been at it for a long time-

Guild SF-V Starfire Semi-Hollow 335 Mahogany Electric Guitar Bigsby W/Case Black | eBay

The Starfire V’s all-mahogany body features an arched top and back, with dual f holes, elegant ivory white body binding, black/white purfling and center-block construction. Body Shape Starfire™ V. Truss Rod Wrench 7mm Hex Truss Rod Wrench.

www.ebay.com

Ah ok. So the I DC is indeed not MIK and not a NS. All so confusing.

The whole reissue thing is interesting, as I found out made in USA Guild Starfires from 1995 and up are reissues. So there are even reissues made in USA. Then we have the current ones which are maybe best described as modern copies than reissues?

I understand what makes the DA not a Guild, technically speaking. They had to make it slightly different, as it was supposed to be a sister brand, instead of a cheap Guild, like they chose to do with the modern Guilds, like the I DC. So technically speaking, different. But practically speaking, a DA is no less of a Guild than the I DC or a modern Guild copy which despite having a Guild logo is made in the same way and even in the same country as the DA.

Besides one has to really stare at the DA headstock for a few minutes to see the difference from the Guild headstock. I'm talking about the Korean made DA. There is more variation within Gibson open book hearstocks on Gibson guitars than the difference between the DA and Guild headstock. Pickups, yes. But the Dearmond pickups are one part I like. I prefer them way more than for example Epiphone humbuckers or what Gretsch is passing as Filtertrons these days or even PAF style, as they are so run of the mill. But I guess the cavity is different and you can't just put any humbucker in the DA?

The price as a distinguish factor for MII and MIK only works for new. In the used market it's a wild west. I have seen I DC selling for as much as the higher end SF. And also bargains like a D'Angelico selling for 250, which sold in like a couple of hours. So it's good to know what to look for. This is how you find deals.

 

[J.G.2024]

Correct. The SF I DC is part of the Newark Street series and is made in Indonesia.

This was the problem. People were raving about the NS as being better because they are made in Korea. So I thought every NS was made in Korea. But apparently not. Or yes. I'm not sure of anything anymore.

 

[Default]

Newark Street is just a label for the electrics. Equivalent to Green Beans. It doesn't designate where they were harvested, just what they are.
I had the first NS Starfire lV in Philly, so new that they hadn't opened the shipping box yet. I thought it was a quality piece of kit, the weak spot being the nut. I won't get into the pickups.
The DeArmond has a much thicker poly finish, and is pretty danged heavy for the size.
The weak spot is the quality of the pots and wiring. I had to replace the switch in the DeA, because the toggle broke off. The Starfires don't have shielded wiring at all, if that is important to you. As a matter of opinion, I have a GSR electric that is going to be rewired when I have the energy. It will get shielded wire, even though it won't be original. It will just be quieter.

 

[LesB3]

I'm not aware of any Starfires being Made in China. The SF-1's are Indonesian, and everything from II on up is Korean. All of them, regardless of country of origin, are "Newark Street" series guitars.

I have an Indonesian SF-1SC, a Korean SF-II Dynasonic, an American SF-III, and an American SF-IV. I paid $371 for the SF-1 (new), $795 for the SF-II (used), $800 for the SF-III (used), and about $1,200 for the SF-IV (used). All were purchased within the last 3 years.

The SF1 stinks (but looks cool), the SF-II is ok, and the SF-III and SF-IV are fantastic. The SF-II is very light, the III and the IV (late 90's models) are very heavy (for a hollowbody).

Of course, you should try out any guitar before buying, but if you happen upon a used American Guild priced like a used Korean one, you should buy it. Believe it or not, it happens quite often.

 

[chazmo]

This was the problem. People were raving about the NS as being better because they are made in Korea. So I thought every NS was made in Korea. But apparently not. Or yes. I'm not sure of anything anymore.

I'm sorry if I/we confused you, J.G.

Good luck in the hunt!

 

[GAD]

Ok, so after all, it doesn't include the I DC then. Only SF II, III, IV,V and VI. So the SF I, meaning the I DC, is not a NS and is not MIK. Or what am I missing?

The Starfire I *IS* A Newark St. guitar. Look here and see for yourself. Every guitar on this page is a Newark St. guitar:

Newark St. Collection | Guild Guitars

The Guild Newark St. Collection marks the return of classic Guild electric favorites from the 1950s and ’60s—once again putting the distinctive Guild styling and voice that helped shape popular music into the hands of today’s guitarists.

guildguitars.com

*ALL* Electric guitars currently sold by Guild are Newark St. guitars. I thought the only exception to this was the US-made very limited Kim Thayill S100 they just sold. but I was wrong! The US-Made Kim Thayil is listed as a Newark St. guitar! LINK. Madness.

Guild is, and has always been, terrible at naming things, but the current Starfire I is especially egregious because they used Starfire I to mean "the cheap line of Starfires" when a Starfire I was original a Starfire with one pickup back in the '60s. The original Starfire numbering made sense. Making a whole line of Starfires with the traditional features found in a II, III, IV, and V and calling them all Starfire Is is madness.

IMO this is one of those "MBAs ruin everything" trends where companies release a dizzying array of products and make it so confusing that you don't know what's what and finally give up and say "the most expensive one must be the best" or "I like the way that one looks so I'll buy it". It's like they're trying to force decision fatigue. Anyone tried to buy a vacuum lately? Holy hell.

 

[J.G.2024]

In my case, I bought a DeArmond because it's related to Guild and, well... just look at it:

For some reason this photo didn't load on my phone. Now that I'm accessing the thread on my PC I saw it. What a beauty!

 

[J.G.2024]

The DeArmond has a much thicker poly finish, and is pretty danged heavy for the size.
The weak spot is the quality of the pots and wiring. I had to replace the switch in the DeA, because the toggle broke off. The Starfires don't have shielded wiring at all, if that is important to you. As a matter of opinion, I have a GSR electric that is going to be rewired when I have the energy. It will get shielded wire, even though it won't be original. It will just be quieter.

The whole poly thing never bothered me. Actually, I quite prefer the looks over nitro. I have polished nitro guitars trying to get a more glossy look. And I have sold nitro guitars because I hated the faded look. I bought an Epiphone ES-175 Premium. There was a whole hype about it because it was nitro, had Gibson pickups and electronics. Really nice guitar actually and plays and sounds closer to a vintage ES-175 than anybody is willing to admit. Specially folks who own the Gibson. But I HATED the faded look. Made it look cheap and just not nice. So when the prices of the Premium version started going up once they were discontinued, I accidently came across an Epiphone ES-175 regular. This version doesn't have the Gibson pups and electronics and has a poly shiny finish. What a beauty! Because the price of the Premium had risen by stupidly amounts, I sold the Premium, bought the regular, replaced the pups and electronics with Gibson and ended up with a shiny nice looking guitar, which sounds as nice as the Premium and ended up spending less than I sold my Premium for.

So the myth of Nitro sounds better than Poly never bothered me. Because back at university days, we partnered with the sound guys, the people studding sound and did tests to confirm a few things. It was their project and we helped them. We took 2 Telecaster type guitars. Identical models bought together of the same color. Took one of them apart and totally stripped the paint off. No coating at all. Put it back together and did tests if it would tangibly affect the sound. The sound guys connected all sorts of gadgets to the guitars, special mics, etc. Nothing! Nothing to speak of according to them. In their words, the sound waves, scopes etc read the same. It's one of those feel good myths I guess, that artists like to hold on too. The metaphysical stuff. Maybe it could make a hair of a difference on a full hollow body? But in a solid and I would guess semi-hollow, nothing. Since I always prefer shiny guitars over sticky looking ones, Poly for me every time.

For the weight, I still wasn't able to get any confirmation of it. The numbers I found online put it with basically all the other semi-hollows and my Les Pauls. I guess I will know if it bothers me when I try one.

Pots, I guess this is totally replaceable. As long as I get along with the neck, like the guitar, pots and harness is never a deal breaker. About having to replace switches, I have had to do that on a Gibson, so...

 

[J.G.2024]

The Starfire I *IS* A Newark St. guitar. Look here and see for yourself. Every guitar on this page is a Newark St. guitar:

Newark St. Collection | Guild Guitars

The Guild Newark St. Collection marks the return of classic Guild electric favorites from the 1950s and ’60s—once again putting the distinctive Guild styling and voice that helped shape popular music into the hands of today’s guitarists.

guildguitars.com

*ALL* Electric guitars currently sold by Guild are Newark St. guitars. I thought the only exception to this was the US-made very limited Kim Thayill S100 they just sold. but I was wrong! The US-Made Kim Thayil is listed as a Newark St. guitar! LINK. Madness.

Guild is, and has always been, terrible at naming things, but the current Starfire I is especially egregious because they used Starfire I to mean "the cheap line of Starfires" when a Starfire I was original a Starfire with one pickup back in the '60s. The original Starfire numbering made sense. Making a whole line of Starfires with the traditional features found in a II, III, IV, and V and calling them all Starfire Is is madness.

IMO this is one of those "MBAs ruin everything" trends where companies release a dizzying array of products and make it so confusing that you don't know what's what and finally give up and say "the most expensive one must be the best" or "I like the way that one looks so I'll buy it". It's like they're trying to force decision fatigue. Anyone tried to buy a vacuum lately? Holy hell.

I think the confusion on my side is that I was thinking NS meant made in Korea. Apparently there are NS made in Korea and Indonesia as well.

So basically, as far as double cut Starfire, as long as I steer clear of the I DC, all other Starfire currently being sold new are made in Korea. I guess I finally understood it?

But for me, since I don't want a Bigsby, the V and VI are not relevant. So it means, the only relevant new Guild Starfire for me would the SF-IV. Interestingly, I thought they had lost the harp tailpiece. But I just saw Sweetwater sells a red SF-IV with the harp tailpiece. But red seems to be the only color with the harp. I so want a blonde. I have enough red guitars.

I'm fully in agreement. Corporates are ruining everything to make a buck. I guess it's the nature of the beast. But makes for an interesting topic. Would it better for companies like Guild to stay in the past with their glorious days and left alone? Or is it better to bring the name back, so at least the folks who are happy with only the name on the headstock can buy Guilds again, at the expense of maybe ruining Guild's old glory? It's the same argument with movie remakes actually. Because this is what this actually is. A Guild remake. Good food for thought. One camp says, if somebody doesn't like the movie remake, just don't watch the new movie and keep watching the old movie. Others will say a new movie which is a stinker stains the legacy of the old movie and all the work the artists put in it. It's disrespectful to the original artists. Hollywood is saying, show-me-the-money!

Similar things happened to Epiphone. They are seen as cheap stuff today. Never mind they were made alongside Gibson at one time. And that arguably the biggest and most important acts in rock'n roll history used Epiphones. The legacy is tarnished and it will be hard to turn it around.

 

[J.G.2024]

...the SF-III and SF-IV are fantastic. The SF-II is very light, the III and the IV (late 90's models) are very heavy (for a hollowbody).

Of course, you should try out any guitar before buying, but if you happen upon a used American Guild priced like a used Korean one, you should buy it. Believe it or not, it happens quite often.

How heavy is your late 90's USA made SF-IV?

If I come across a made in USA SF-IV for the price of a Korea made one, I would definitely jump on it.

Till then, the more I read and look, the more I think I would be happier with a Dearmond Starfire Custom than with a modern Starfire IV Newark Street.

I'm still failing to find any superiority on the SF-IV NS. The only advantage seems to be weight, which doesn't bother me, being 6.2", 220lbs and an athlete, and having Les Pauls and semi-hollows which weight over 8lbs.

Ok, it has the Guild name on the headstock. But if you compare the headstock of an USA made one and a SF-IV NS side by side, the NS looks quite close to just a sticker glued on IMO:



What I meant is, doesn't look on pair with the USA Guild anyways. It looks like an import. So just the Guild name there is not convincing me to pay double and go with what actually seems to be a pretty similar product. Besides the DA headstock is basically the same shape:


If the Guild name bothers so much, just put a Guild sticker over.

In all seriousness, this week I will have a look at the DA and if I like it, and till then I don't find any proof or at least solid reports a modern Guild Starfire IV is actually superior in anyway, besides just having a Guild logo, I will buy the DA. I already don't like the Blonde SF-IV NS looking at photos. seems very pale. I at first thought it was an off white. Plus it has a stoptail. The red one has a harp, but I wasn't looking for a red guitar. So it will need to be a LOT better than the DA to swing me. Still looking for info that it is superior...

 

[J.G.2024]

 

[Smiert Spionam]

I've been playing Guilds for a long time, though I don't have nearly the experience of GAD or GGJaguar. I played and owned quite a few of the DeAs when they came out, and they're good guitars. Ultimately, the weight and design differences from the originals were enough to make me not love them, so I didn't keep any. The newer guitars are much closer to the original designs, and I like them a lot more as a more affordable alternative to US-made Guilds. But that's me.

Analysis paralysis won't help sort this out -- you just need to play some guitars, and pick one. The DeArmonds were well-made, and can be excellent guitars for the price. Same for the new Korean Guilds.

Just pick up a guitar, and if you love it, take it home.