I got to play a New Hartford D-40
- Thread starter P-E-Z
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Taylor Martin Guild
Senior Member
Perhaps a Guild is a Guild, no mater where they are made.
Taylor Martin Guild said:
I think there's a lot of truth to this statement. In my limited experience, Guilds (and Taylors) are remarkably consistent in feel and playability. On the other hand, Martins and especially Gibsons are less so. When you consider the recent history of Guild, it is amazing that they are still as good as they are.
Dave
That's a nice sentiment, but I don't exactly buy it. Both Tacoma and New Hartford were experienced quality guitar-building facilities before Fender put Guild in there. Tacoma-brand guitars are extremely well-executed beasties and have similar finish flaws to the Guilds that came out of that period (no surprise). The creativity of Guild in that period with the Contemporaries and incremental changes to the Traditionals was possible because of what had come before there. I think the same thing is true in New Hartford, although of course we're all wondering how the Ovation legacy plays into solid-wood product.
But anyway, I guess I don't think it's just that "a Guild is a Guild." I do think the USA Guilds have been lucky to land in such excellent hands, despite the churn. New Hartford is kind of like Tacoma because Guild is a not-invented-here brand for the Kaman group. They do seem to be adopting it well and it's giving them work. This, I believe, is a big motivator as apparently they were under-utilized before.
But anyway, I guess I don't think it's just that "a Guild is a Guild." I do think the USA Guilds have been lucky to land in such excellent hands, despite the churn. New Hartford is kind of like Tacoma because Guild is a not-invented-here brand for the Kaman group. They do seem to be adopting it well and it's giving them work. This, I believe, is a big motivator as apparently they were under-utilized before.
dogberry
Member
pez said:
That's great to hear. Wonder when any of those will make their way out to the left coast.
Dogman
Siwash said:
I have played both.
Tocama guitars were good for the money.
Personally not up to the standards I expect.
So I never bought a Tacoma or Tacoma made Guild.
They better than the Corona Guitars that sucked.
The some late Westerly guitars had issues.
Pre 1995 Westerly guitars were very good.
New York, Hoboken and Early Westerly were excellent guitars,
Even if you do not like roundback guitar, if your fair,
and examine fit finish and attention to detail in the USA Ovations
are second to none. Sister company Hamer USA is quite simply
the Rolls Royce of the electric guitar business.
Better than Gibson's best. Better than Fenders custom shop.
Nothing else is even close except possibly PRS.
Most players have never seem or handled a Hamer USA Guitar.
Only about 600 made a year total.
For that matter what other company can do the elaborately carved headstocks
and bridges that are on Adamas guitars?
http://www.adamasguitars.com/?fa=detail ... 2&sid=511#
http://www.adamasguitars.com/?fa=detail ... 3&sid=511#
I can't think of any company that can.
I one point Guild could in D100 guitar.
I just wish wish they move Guild Service to New Hartford.
Its always done on time or early, for quoated price or less.
Again with extra attention to detail.
Scratch
Enlightened Member
pez said:
Similar experience with the CT-built D55 I played a few weeks ago. They seem to be off to a good start... Gotta say, though, that my Tacoma-built 2005 D40 sounds sweeter every day. I'd like to A/B it against one of the new CT-builts
chicagowineguy
Member
Yep as I mentioned in a previous post when I played the CT D55 and D40 side by side I was blown away by the D40. They were both just great, but for (only a little) less money I really thought the D40 was the superior guitar in terms of volume, tone and the neck was really smooth and fast. Let me reiterate, though--both guitars showed very fine craftsmanship and the attention to detail was topnotch.
Chazmo said:
Tacoma was a value brand of USA acoustics.
Great guitars for the money.
On the other hand, Ovation, Adamas, and Hamer have a long history of premuim guitars.
Much different expirence. The first Custom Legend was built for Linda McCartney who wanted to get a fancy
verson of the Legend for Paul because he rally liked those. She gave it to Paul as a Christmas gift.
Niel Diamond played one at the last Waltz, Paul Simon choose a 1619 Custom Legend for the "Concert in Cental Park".
If look at the history of Ovation Guitars book you realize There are litterly 100s of Arena and Stadium acts have used thier instuments. Plus both Charlie Kaman and his son Bill Kaman are both avid guitar players.
The people they picked to run New Hartford are still there. You have one of the most expirenced groups luithiers
on the planet there.
The Ovation plant was not under utilized.
In order acommodate Guild, Ovation moved production of Standard Balladeer, Standard Elite, and Elite T went to
thier South Korea production plant. South Korean production
of lower end Celeberty by Ovation moved to China.
The wood is air dry not heat to dry it out.
Tons of hand work.
Look at how Hamer is made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wicSQKL ... L&index=22
Look at Ovation
http://www.ovationtribute.com/Ovation_F ... /Tour.html
Rick Hall told us at last weekends Ovation Fan Club New Jersey Gathering that they set out to build
the best Guild Guitars ever made. Having seen the D-55 & D-40 I felt great to tell him from a Westerly made
Guild owner, you have done just that.
Guild indeed fell in to very talented hands.
I am really looking forward buying my first New Hartford Guild.
chicagowineguy
Member
Pez you seem very knowledgeable with respect to Ovation's history and manufacturing processes...actually you're a bit of a breath of fresh air since it's a little easy to dis Ovation when, actually, you're quite right, Ovation has a long and storied history of being selected by many fine players as their instrument of choice. I am very optimistic about the CT Guilds...I only hope and pray they can produce a full and varied product line as good as the two examples I've had the pleasure of playing. Hmm...a brand new GF25...ahh what a lovely idea!
Beal
Junior Member
The Siwash statement really pissed me off implying that the CT Guilds will suck because he doesn't like Ovations. Maybe I'm just too sensitive to it but that strikes me as a real closed minded approach to it. Not trying to start a fight, just saying that's not a good starting point to evaluating the new Guilds.
Which I think are great, but what do I know, I used to sell jet fuel in Florida. Of course there was a career before that but that's another story for another day. The quality standards they are being built and held to are higher than ever before (for Guild quality by Fender/Guild people, not Ovation). I'm not a Guild player, I have several Brazilian Collings for rosewood guitars and prewar D18s for mahogony. That's my starting and reference point. The CT Guilds come real close. I've got a D55 and I'm impressed. I would be very suprised if the world does not totally embrace these guitars as they get out there.
Speaking of getting out there, the dealers need to start ordering these or Fender needs to start selling these one. The completed guitar inventory is growing and these's 9 or 10 different models in the production line. They're working on introducing cutaways now.
I will say that I think the D-tar electronics, that big metal thing at the back of the guitar is the Fugliest thing I've ever seen. Like putting off-road dirt truck tyre on a sports car. I know someone who bought one of the new CT D-40s with the system and he says it sounds good so it evidently works well. It just looks ugly to me
Which I think are great, but what do I know, I used to sell jet fuel in Florida. Of course there was a career before that but that's another story for another day. The quality standards they are being built and held to are higher than ever before (for Guild quality by Fender/Guild people, not Ovation). I'm not a Guild player, I have several Brazilian Collings for rosewood guitars and prewar D18s for mahogony. That's my starting and reference point. The CT Guilds come real close. I've got a D55 and I'm impressed. I would be very suprised if the world does not totally embrace these guitars as they get out there.
Speaking of getting out there, the dealers need to start ordering these or Fender needs to start selling these one. The completed guitar inventory is growing and these's 9 or 10 different models in the production line. They're working on introducing cutaways now.
I will say that I think the D-tar electronics, that big metal thing at the back of the guitar is the Fugliest thing I've ever seen. Like putting off-road dirt truck tyre on a sports car. I know someone who bought one of the new CT D-40s with the system and he says it sounds good so it evidently works well. It just looks ugly to me
Beal said:
I think you're talking about the Load 'n Lock system (big endpin), right? It is a monster, but I take issue with the way Martin is mounting the battery on the DTAR system in their new F-512 clone... They attach it to the back. Hey, if it takes a big endpin to get the battery off a vibrating surface, I'm good with that. That said, DTAR with just a pickup (and not with a condenser mic for mixing) seems like overkill. I'd go with a passive pickup (like K&K without preamp) and preamp it with a belt clip.
Dr. Spivey
Senior Member
It's good to hear that things are finally starting to happen in New Hartford. There is only one dealer less than an hour away from me. I'll have to see if they have any CT guitars yet. They usually don't stock much but GADs.
Appalachian Blues
Member
I've always been a huge fan of Red Spruce topped guitars. There is something about the grains acoustic properties that distinguish it from the more common used Sitka. My bearclawed '74 top has resonance/overtones that have stood out but somehow, someway, I want to update to these new D-40's. Hopefully, and I've been told that Guild will start offering more lefties in 2010, these D-40's will be offered to lefties.
Then I can say to the wifie pooh, "but honey.....it's a Guild"
Then I can say to the wifie pooh, "but honey.....it's a Guild"
Scratch
Enlightened Member
How's the JF30 doing, Billy?
jte
Member
This is good to hear. When I managed a guitar store, I found that Ovations (at least the US ones) were always extremely well made in all respects. I don't care for the round back, nor the sound of Ovations, but that's a design issue, not an execution issue. And at least under Charlie Kaman and later his son Bill, they really really had a passion for guitars. When Hamer production was moved from Illinois to Connecticut, there was simply NO decline in quality at all.
So, despite my chronic mis-givings of FMIC (based on their consistent failure to effecively MARKET Guilds), having Guild production in the Kaman business makes sense and portends good things for the instruments.
My exposure to Tacoma is that they were nice guitars for the money, but never made as well as any Guild production nor nearly as good as Ovations. There were a lot of fit and finish issues that one could over-look at those prices, but not what I would expect from a real world-class guitar production facility.
jte
So, despite my chronic mis-givings of FMIC (based on their consistent failure to effecively MARKET Guilds), having Guild production in the Kaman business makes sense and portends good things for the instruments.
My exposure to Tacoma is that they were nice guitars for the money, but never made as well as any Guild production nor nearly as good as Ovations. There were a lot of fit and finish issues that one could over-look at those prices, but not what I would expect from a real world-class guitar production facility.
jte
I've got an '07 Elite T, and I have to agree with everybody about the craftsmanship, quality, fit, finish, etc. Just beautiful, and well made. But it doesn't have the character of tone of an all-wood guitar, that's for sure.
I also have a Tacoma DV-4, which sounds great, but not built as well.
I can't wait to see a CT Guild, it sounds like it could be the perfect union of acoustic design and quality build.
I also have a Tacoma DV-4, which sounds great, but not built as well.
I can't wait to see a CT Guild, it sounds like it could be the perfect union of acoustic design and quality build.