I didn't mean to buy a GAD Guild today at Elderly

[HoboKen]

They have come a long way with poly finishes, but a polly finish today will be the same in 20 years as far as tone goes. A lacquer finish improves tone with age up to a certain point. And.......as one other has said, the jury is still out on how well Tacoma Luithiers can match the old Westerly Luthiers. The verdict on Corona Luthiers was spotty at best. I really do hope Tacoma measures up to what a Guild has been in the past. Only time will tell.

 

[dreadnut]

Hobo, I agree, time will tell. I just re-strung my old D-25 last night, ahhhhhhhh

I must say, the Tacoma units I've played at Elderly sounded nice (but haven't opened up yet of course). I inspected them very closely and the workmanship seemed to be excellent. Too bad they had to move clear across the country twice to do the same thing they already had in place at Westerly, but they are still hand made by American luthiers.

 

[Benee Wafers]

So Hobie you're saying that a poly finish impedes the woods
vibration or the wood’s capacity to improve with time (aging).
solomio

 

[HoboKen]

As I have said elsewhere in this forum, any finish keeps the wood from being all that it can be on a guitar Poly finishes just do it more than a nitro finsh does over time.

 

[Benee Wafers]

Hobie you said that a poly finish will not allow a guitar improve in sound with playing, over time.
I don't think that is factual.
BW

 

[HoboKen]

Well, I'm open to scientific proof, but I've had many many luthiers (not just repair people) agree that a poly fiinish will not change over time as a nitro finsih will. In fact I've not had a one say to the contrary on this issue. The bonding of the poly finish is a more complete bonding from what I've been told by those who build 'em. They all agree that the nitro is a better finsh as far as tone is concerned. Poly is the better finish as far as protecting the wood is concerned.

All I know is that the head to head comparisons I'v made between the GAD or Corona or Tacoma Guilds and the Westerly Guilds, model for model, have come out in favor of the Westerlys when it comes to what I'm hearing and my two college trained professional sound engineering sons' ears agree. So its not just my old ears playing tricks on me.

I am serious in that I really do hope the nitro finished Tacoma Guilds will match the Westerlys and Hobokens in time. I don't think the GADs will or can ever do that. Unless you are doing professional stage and recording work, it probably doesn't matter much to most folks. But, as has been said before, only time will tell.

 

[Benee Wafers]

Hobie I' not contradicting you and nor are we comparing nitro to poly.
I know nitro is considered the superior.
What I am questioning is your statement that poly coated acoustics will not improve sound wise with playing over time. That's all.You said...quote...." but a polly finish today will be the same in 20 years as far as tone goes " unquote.
I asked you on what info did you base that statement.

So do you have any information that can back up that statment or did you just make it up?

I am not trying to pin you to the wall on this its just that I am looking forward to my poly finished GAD developing an even more incredible sound than it now has .

So you just made it up then?
Benee

 

[Benee Wafers]

Hobie

Taylor, Larrivee, Collings, or Bourgeois. There's polyester on all of them.

Anyway here is a very informative article or 2 from Taylor

http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/pdf ... h_line.pdf

Benee

 

[dreadnut]

I find it humorous that the guy that started this whole thread brought his GAD back to Elderly after 3 days and traded it in on something else
(see "That was a quick love affair" below)

 

[Benee Wafers]

Not if you read why he brought it back.
And no slight against the GAD what so ever,
Benee

 

[Benee Wafers]

Hobie
I brought this issue of poly finishes to the luthiers section of the forum on the Acoustic Guitar mag site.
Consensus was that poly finished guitars will change ( age ) just as nitro finished will. And in both cases some change for the better, some for the worse.
Go to the website and read what the luthiers have commented.

Your statment ......." but a poly finish today will be the same in 20 years as far as tone goes "....... has not been accepted.
You were misinformed.
I hope I have brought some new info to the readership and that you have enjoyed this learning experience as much as I have.
Benee Wafers

 

[West R Lee]

Benee,

I am no luthier, but let me interject this. And I am asking this question not stating a fact about finishes.

I went to the Acoustic Guitar Forum and read the various posts about finish and wood. If the baseball bat that I owned as a kid is substantially harder now, 30 od years later. Would it stand to reason that a guitar top would become harder with age? If a guitar top that is cut so thin becomes harder with age, would it stand to reason that it would vibrate more and become less likely to absorb vibration?

If nirto-cellulose finishes allow the wood to breath and a poly finish does not, would it make sense that a nitro finished top would vibrate more than the poly over time?

Again, these are questions probably better suited for Hans or one of the REAL acoustic guys, but you have certainly aroused my curiosity.

West

 

[Russell Letson]

not to be argumentative, but--

. . . the American hand-made Guilds, Martins, Collings, etc. have yet to be matched by anyone in the world. . . .

Aw, c'mon--Larrivee, Michael Dunn, Shelley Park (in Canada); George Lowden (Northern Ireland); Stefan Sobell (England). And those are just the ones whose guitars I've played. (We might also quibble over the application of "hand-made" to Guilds and Martins, but I'm not being argumentative. Really.)

 

[Benee Wafers]

Hi WRL.
I don't think the bat analogy will work but why don't you pose this on the Acoustic web site in the Luthiers section?
I don't know if Hans is a luthier or an archivist? If the latter I think he could not add much except by research as we are doing.
Benee

 

[dreadnut]

ok russell, I should've qualified that: "no major guitar producers...". Gee whiz, tough crowd! :shock:

I agree, there are some sweet guitars being made by some other luthiers around the world, but they are very limited in scope and production, and you'll also pay dearly for them. And at the risk of opening another can of worms, I've not been overly impressed with the Larivees I've played.

 

[dreadnut]

Well I guess I need to eat my words, I played a couple high-end Larivees at Elderly today and they were real nice. They weren't cheap, though. Neither was the $7K Brazilian Collings I played. Man, you can't turn around in that place without bumping into a $5,000.00 guitar. Martins and Taylors galore...

I played a Tacoma built D-55 for awhile, it was really sweet all around. A little muddy on the low end though it will probably open up nicely. Excellent workmanship & feel, price tag of $2k.

A GAD-50 sounded pretty nice, but they want like $879.00 for these now. I know nothing about nitro vs. poly finishes, but I do know what makes my eyes and ears happy. They had a slew of GADs, and they're using a wide variety of woods but the finishes seem duller than nitro. I think their new sunburst looks particularly cheap compared to the old Guild nitro burst & high gloss finishes. When you can still get vintage Westerly built dreads in great condition for the same price as a Chinese version, my choice is obvious.

 

[Benee Wafers]

Dred, you can't.
And the 40C which is the same as the 50 except with hog b/s goes for 675. And you will not find an Excellent Condition Westerly dread for those $
Plus I think a lot of people don't want to take a chance on buying a second/third hand guitar and after all there is something to be said for a brand new guitar.
Like on my quest for a D55 if I could get a Westerly made D55 for less money than a Tacoma made D55 I would consider it, depending on the condition. Otherwise I would go with a new TAC.
Benee Wafers

 

[dreadnut]

Actually, you'll see nice vintage Guild dreads going in those price ranges all the time on ebay. Of particular value are the Westerly D-50's, DV-52's and other rosewood dreads with nice tops which can often be had for the same price as a new GAD-50. I'm sticking by my statement...

 

[West R Lee]

I have seen many great deals on D-25's in the $200 to $600 range built in Westerly on Ebay. Man, just the other day a guy sold a mint 1981 D-55 on Ebay with a "Buy it Now" of $1495. A 7 day listing, it sold in less than 3 hours! I was Sick!

There are some deals to be had on Westerly Guilds on Ebay.

West

 

[Benee Wafers]

Dred
That must have been the GAD50 electro acoustic you were playing for 879. The acoustic version goes for 675. Check it out at any of the online sites.
Anyway nothing to squabble about. If you say so.

WRL. Yes if that D55 was mint then that was indeed a very good deal. Yup.
Benee