High tailpiece

[RussB]

I rekon I'll top-wrap the tailpiece next time I re-string. The tailpiece studs have some sharp edges around the screwdriver slots.

 

[matsickma]

Looks to me that the tail piece is not screwed down enough. Typically the threads should not be exposed.

M

 

[hideglue]

matsickma, you're right, typically the threads aren't exposed (some may blame a less than ideal neck angle). But if the tp was screwed down any further the strings would start hitting the back of the bridge--- not so ideal either.

So Russ' 'solution' of top-wrapping the tp is clever, indeed.

 

[Walter Broes]

Yep, looks like that one could benefit from a "top wrap".

Geeky observation : I recently got Rob Lawrence's new Les Paul book (highly recommended if you're into the man and/or the guitars!), and the first ad for the stop tailpiece/TOM Les Paul Custom shows a "top wrapped" example! Maybe it's how these things were supposed to be set up - the pic would certainly imply that.

 

[FNG]

Can't those TPR bridges collapse?

 

[RussB]

Looks to me that the tail piece is not screwed down enough. Typically the threads should not be exposed.

M

The tailpiece is where it is because you can't have the strings touching the back of the bridge. The strings can only touch the bridge's saddles.

Is my Bluesbird weird, or is this common to Bluesbirds?

 

[Default]

IIRC, the stop tailpiece was supposed to be a combo tailpiece/bridge. Some of them have a compensated ridge for proper intonation.
Here's one where the stopbar was replaced with an aftermarket piece.

 

[Default]

Some others.

 

[RussB]

Here's a comparison between my BB and '90 LP Std. Both guitars have a steep neck angle, in relation to the body, i.e. the neck is angled down and away from the bodies top. The tailpieces have the string holes counterbored from both sides, so top-wrapping the strings is an option.

Bluesbird...

Les Paul...

 

[BluesDan]

My recent Blues 90 acquisition from fellow LTG-er Thorn came to me top wrapped. I love it, no break angle problems and seems to add to sustain. Definitely give it a try. My Les Paul will be next one to be top wrapped next string change.

 

[BluesDan]

Some others.

Nice Goldtop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8) 8)

 

[RussB]

BluesDan,

That is one sweet Blues 90. The top is spectacular 8)

 

[matsickma]

Hey BluesDan,

Your latest pictures of the "boat wake" Blues 90 really does it justice! The origional pictures made it look like the 'wake' was not matching on the cutaway side.

I was considering buying this baby before you got it but didn't think the cutaway side had the bookend grain.

Looks like I made a mistake!

Glad to see it in its true glory.

M

 

[BluesDan]

Hey BluesDan,

Your latest pictures of the "boat wake" Blues 90 really does it justice! The origional pictures made it look like the 'wake' was not matching on the cutaway side.

I was considering buying this baby before you got it but didn't think the cutaway side had the bookend grain.

Looks like I made a mistake!

Glad to see it in its true glory.

M

Hey Mats,
Actually those are the original pics taken by Thorn before he sold the guitar to me! The only pic I have had a chance to take was this one, which really doesn't show the wake at all.......when I get a chance I'll take some better pics. Thanks though, she sounds even better than she looks!

Oh....and RussB, thanks for the compliment too!

 

[RussB]

[
Thanks though, she sounds even better than she looks!

...and that Blues 90 matches the decor, too :lol:

 

[gilded]

My recent Blues 90 acquisition from fellow LTG-er Thorn came to me top wrapped. I love it, no break angle problems and seems to add to sustain. Definitely give it a try. My Les Paul will be next one to be top wrapped next string change.

Dan, with respect, I always kind of thought it was the opposite, that is, the 'lower the tailpiece' (thus the lower the strings), the more sustain available from the guitar.

As the original poster mentioned if you put the tailpiece down far enough, the strings will begin to hit the back edge of the tuneamatic/bridge. In my recollection, the bass side strings hit first and the treble side strings hardly ever hit.

Generally, I like a shallower tailpiece angle (bridge up high) if I'm playing lots of chords on a guitar.

If I'm primarily playing lead (i.e., single string playing is more important), I'll crank the Tailpiece down as much as I can. Usually, I'll just crank a Paul-type guitar down to where the bass strings are just barely 'Not Touching' the back of the tuneamatic.

I use a BIG screwdriver to raise and lower the tailpiece. Stew Mac sells a tool that does just that and only that, for only $31 and change:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Wrenc ... ml#details

Me, I'll use my big 'driver.

HH

 

[BluesDan]

Dan, with respect, I always kind of thought it was the opposite, that is, the 'lower the tailpiece' (thus the lower the strings), the more sustain available from the guitar.

As the original poster mentioned if you put the tailpiece down far enough, the strings will begin to hit the back edge of the tuneamatic/bridge. In my recollection, the bass side strings hit first and the treble side strings hardly ever hit.

Generally, I like a shallower tailpiece angle (bridge up high) if I'm playing lots of chords on a guitar.

If I'm primarily playing lead (i.e., single string playing is more important), I'll crank the Tailpiece down as much as I can. Usually, I'll just crank a Paul-type guitar down to where the bass strings are just barely 'Not Touching' the back of the tuneamatic.

I use a BIG screwdriver to raise and lower the tailpiece. Stew Mac sells a tool that does just that and only that, for only $31 and change:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Wrenc ... ml#details

Me, I'll use my big 'driver.

HH

Gild, I would have assumed the same thing before receiving this guitar with the top wrap. But the proof was in the puddin'. Seller told me he top wrapped for increased sustain, intrigued, as soon as I got her I pulled the strings and strung her up the conventional way. Same gauge, pretty sure anyway, they were real light, felt like 9's to me. Noticably less sustain strung through. Went back to top wrap, increased sustain when playing lead, no doubt. Hmmm, interesting I says to myself............so I search the wonderful web for a possible explaination and lo and behold there are quite a few sites with info that seem to support the theory. This was just one of 'em. Urban legend? Dunno......I'm a believer for now. I'll offer up additional ponderings when I try it with the LP. Here is the link for one page that seems to support, there were others but I didnt save them:
http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=gu ... f,40a7d94e

 

[BluesDan]

Gild,
Fwiw...Here's another quote from a guitar forum:

"Yes there is a good reason for it,People like Billy Gibbons and Duane Allman figured out that if you screw the tailpiece down hard on the body then wrap the strings back over the tailpiece, not only did you get the perfect downward force on the bridge, but it also seemed to increase sustain and tone. Also, many people say it reduces tension, making the guitar feel spongy and easier to play."

Who knew? I never noticed.

 

[gilded]

Dan,

I'll try it! But, candidly, since I sold my LP to finance my daughter's College costs, it will be a while before I can try it. Maybe in 4 years, when she graduates, I can buy another one! :evil:

[Wait, I'm thinking........]

Okay, I've been thinking about this and here's what I've come up with:

It sounds like the advocates of 'TP slammed down, strings over the top' are saying that you can split the functions of TP height and string angle, to get a different sound. And, you're saying that you've tried it and it's working for you, right??

I can see where having the TP screwed all the way down will give you the most vibration potential you will get with a LP-type guitar.

If, in addition to that, the 'sweet spot' for a particular player or a particular guitar involves changing to a shallower string angle while maintaining the maximum vibration potential (TP slammed down)................

[hard to grasp, must think harder. Oh no, thoughts starting to slide backwards......]

At the same time, I'm saying that I've always been able to get more sustain by leaving strings in the 'normal way' and dropping the Tailpiece all the way down (or almost all the way down). I'm also saying that I've been able to get less tension by raising the TP and find that I like that on a guitar if my primary purpose is to play chords with that axe.

[think harder still; now head hurting]

Still, in fairness to what you are saying/espousing, it's something I haven't tried on a guitar.

[thinking so hard now, I have to make decision. Ow, that really hurts......]

Okay, I'll borrow a Paul and give it a go. Anybody want to donate 3 sets of D'Addario .10s to the Nobel Experiment??

gilded

 

[RussB]

A lot has to do with the neck angle in relation to the body.

Some LP's have somewhat less angle, and top wrapping may not be a good solution. In the particular case of my LP and now this Bluesbird, the neck angle is such that in order for the string break angle to be maximized while not allowing the strings to touch the body of the tailpiece means that the tailpiece must ride way up high.

This makes these guitars good candidates for top-wrapping, because a healthy amount of string break angle from bridge to tailpiece will still exist, and any benefits from having the tailpiece screwed down to the body will be realized.