Guitar Cable/Jack Weirdness

[Quantum Strummer]

Here's a pic of the plugs from two cables I have. On the left is a Switchcraft plug from a c. 1993 ProCo cable. The plug on the right is from a c. 2008 Monster cable. The Monster plug may look longer than the Switchcraft but that's a perspective trick…they're actually the same length. What isn't a perspective trick is the Monster's longer notch (the curved narrower part) in the tip of its plug. I have a bunch of other fairly new cables from a variety of sources, all with this longer plug notch.

Anyway, here's the issue: a bunch of my older guitars—mostly '50s & '60s stuff—do not get along well with the longer notch. The part of their jacks that's supposed to engage with the notch doesn't always do it properly, and when it doesn't I get buzzing, static, intermittent/degraded signal from the guitar or even silence. I often have to unplug & replug multiple times before I get just the "right" fit. (The shorter notch plugs seem to work fine with everything, new or old.) So I've been using the old ProCo cable, which is still in great shape, with problem guitars for awhile now.

My '72 SG-250 is among the problem guitars. Its jack is connected to its top cover plate, so I can remove the plate and attach a cable and see what's going on. The jack for sure makes a poorer physical connection with the longer plug notch. (I don't have a pic of this at the moment.) The fit is snug with the shorter notch but loose with the longer one.

So it seems that c. 1970 plug/jack makers began (mostly) using the longer notch and shaping the jack receptacles to suit these plugs. Any idea why? Did the advent of stereo audio prompt it in some way?

-Dave-

(All puns welcome!)

 

[GAD]

Interesting. The 1/4" phone jack has been a standard since the 1800s and I'd think there would be a huge backlash if it changed, but I can find no reference to an acceptable change spec.

Now I need to know...

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

The monster cables had a lot of problems with quality control regarding plug dimensions...had to send two new cables back to them...yes, they replaced them but I finally gave up...rumor that the issues had to do with metric measurements not being compatible with non metric measured equipment.

The older jack in the guitar is also likely worn further exacerbating the contact issues.

The newer jacks might be a different design matching the newer plug designs.

Something to keep in mind when matching new equipment to older.

 

[adorshki]

Interesting. The 1/4" phone jack has been a standard since the 1800s and I'd think there would be a huge backlash if it changed, but I can find no reference to an acceptable change spec.

Now I need to know...

I'm guessing that since that notch engages with what's basically nothing more than a spring-tensioned contact,

the slightly longer recess ensures better contact.
Might also make for a less chance of the plug pulling out of sockets with "tired" tip contacts, or might be even be primary reason.
The length of that notch isn't as critical as shaft length/diameter and isolation ring location.
And how many of us have experienced "floppy" or loose sockets.
Also, if it's a tad bit shallower as it appears, it may help ensure that it's opening a "normally closed" contact in those sockets.
Edit: Never mind, somehow I missed the entire explanation of the reason for the question in the OP.
My hypothesis appears to be in direct conflict with Quantum's experience.
Now I think he's on to something regarding the advent of stereo phone jacks, where there's a need to provide another contact surface on the pin and still have room for two contacts inside the socket.
And it may be that there are very few if any makers of the "old" tip style around after that.

 

[JohnW63]

You would think the newer, wider, notched cable would have more room for the springy part to connect to , but may not fit IN the notch as snugly. The older seems to match the curved shape of the plug better. As I keep staring at the cables, I see the newer one has a collar where the plug starts. The older one and the Monster seem to have the same height flat part of the cable, but the Monster also has that little step collar. Could it be that the collar is keeping the cable from fully going in the plug ?

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Not a big fan of Monster or their management.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...-other-side-trademark-case-still-losing.shtml

I know there is a military spec 1/4" phone plug but they tend to have a ball tip. I'm sure that type would all be the same. I looked around for other spec's but didn't turn much up. This drawing at least has a dimension to the center of the "groove".

 

[Quantum Strummer]

I shoulda mentioned that I've run into the same issue with recent cables from a few different makers. (Oh, in fact I did…kinda/sorta.) All my older mono cables, including keyboard stuff going back to the early '80s, use the shorter notch. I don't have any old stereo cables to look at unfortunately. John's point about the Monster's step collar is on the mark, I think, at least regarding my SG-250. I suspect his other point about the jack's springy part not seating properly in the cable's notch is more broadly on the mark. I'm not about to remove the jacks from my oldies to nail this down, but I may end up buying a vintage jack or two…

-Dave-

 

[adorshki]

I shoulda mentioned that I've run into the same issue with recent cables from a few different makers.

I'm suspecting another factor at play: the ongoing shrinkage of parts suppliers for all kinds of products.
You might be amazed how many different brands are created from components supplied by the same manufacturer..
In this case it wouldn't surprise me if all those brands use parts from the same jack component machining manufacturer who happens to be one of the only games left in town (wherever that is).
I could be wrong but I'm sure know what I'm talking about in general.

 

[Sitedrifter]

These neutrik plugs are on my planet waves cables and they work great.

 

[adorshki]

These neutrik plugs are on my planet waves cables and they work great.

Well that pic illustrates my original hypothesis (longer notch ensures better connection) but Quantum's claiming the exact opposite.
In my opinion tolerances (of American made stuff, at least) were probably a lot more consistent back in '60's-'70's, so I view that comment about out-of-tolerance jacks, with a jaundiced eye, no snark intended.
Mark, what vintage of gear are the Planet Waves cables working well with?

 

[Sitedrifter]

My guitars are all 2000s model years. Nothing vintage.

 

[adorshki]

My guitars are all 2000s model years. Nothing vintage.

Thanks.
Introduces age of jack as a variable.
My suspicion is that the motive to shorten contacts for cost-savings has been more prevalent in recent years than "back in the day" when metal was a lot cheaper and standards more consistent.
So while their lit might illustrate a valid "issue", I think they're blaming wrong generation of equipment.
And I suspect metal fatigue of contacts in jack is a major player in the overall problem.
Could be a lot of those guitars "made in last 60 years" have had jacks replaced with newer ones due to that problem?

 

[JohnW63]

I like Neutrik brand connectors.

 

[Quantum Strummer]

Interesting stuff re. the Neutrik marketing lit. My old Tele's guts are a bit messy—the original paper-in-oil tone caps are still in there, though out of circuit, for example—so I may just take 'em all out, then do a cleanup/re-solder. I could pull out the jack at the same time and see what kind of shape it's in.

-Dave-

 

[Sitedrifter]

if you truly want the best, Neutrik connectors with Gotham Audio cable. Some of the best shielding of cable around.

 

[Quantum Strummer]

Funny how unobservant you (well, I) can be about stuff right under your nose. I have a bunch of short patch cables I use for stringing pedals together and/or linking synth inputs & outputs. Some I put together myself using super/ultra/mega/hyper-low capacitance cable. Others are just basic Planet Waves (guitar) or color-coded (synth) shorties that work every bit as well. Anyway, all of 'em have plugs with the shorter notch. Which means they're still being made. Which means I in fact have some of those plugs in a bag in one of my cabinets. Time to assemble a longer cable or two. I actually don't like the super/ultra/mega/hyper stuff between my guitar and effects chain, or straight into amp, so I'll just amputate some Monsters.

-Dave-