Guilds like the ES-225?

[mad dog]

I'm getting interested in old ES-225s, but certainly can't afford one. Looking on the Guild side, I find two models are rather similar in some ways, the T100 and the Starfire III (at least the one with P90 types). How much alike are these models. Is the T100 plainer than the SF? Are both full hollow body? I know one of the SFs was that way, can't remember if it's the SF III.

I've seen pics of the T100, with different pickups. Early ones with the Franz pickups, some later ones with a metal rimmed white p/u that looks something like the Dearmond 2K, and one with what looks like Guild humbuckers. Does anyone know how these p/us sound in the T100? I'm looking more on the P90, single coil sound but am open to anything toneful.

thanks!

 

[krysh]

hey mad dog,

in this case I would go for a SF 2/3 (always hollowbody) with p90 or Dearmond Single Coils. They are still affordable.
If you like to go more into the vintage direction the T100 or CE100 with franz pickups or later Dearmond single coils should be the one.
...or maybe the cheaper DeArmond Starfire :wink:

 

[Default]

Both are full hollow bodies. When I owned my T100, the only difference between the Starfire and it were the pickups and the T-100 only had binding on the top. Both guitars were '67 or later.

IIRC, the Slim Jim was a featherweight.

 

[caveman]

A T100D ,with franz pickups, is the closest you'll get to the ES225 I think. The SFIII usually has humbucking pickups, but is largely the same model. I played a few ES225's and I liked them a lot, but the necks were quite bigger, the weight is a little heavier and the sound quite a lot darker than my 59 T100D. I'm a very happy owner, as you might have noticed ... Crank it through a hot fender tube amp, and you're in rock 'n' roll heaven !

 

[teleharmonium]

The T100 was the basis for the first Starfires, the differences were pickup choice and cosmetics. In most cases the Starfires have enclosed tuners (I think I've seen some early examples that had the same open types as the T100s from the same era). I have a couple of T100Ds and a Starfire III. Unless open geared tuners are a deal breaker, I would suggest making your choice based solely on what kind of pickups and color you like, regardless of whether the target axe is a T100D or SFII (or the single pickup equivalents, T100 and SFI, or the two pickups plus Bigsby, SFIII).

As far as pickups go, the Franz pickups are lower output, so they're like a brighter P90 with less mids and less ability to drive the front end of the amp into distortion. That's a non issue if you use pedals to boost gain or get your crunch, or if you play clean, or if you amp has plenty of gain on tap for your style. They sound great and have a pronounced attack to the note. The thinner "Mickey Mouse" single coils are again like a P90 but a bit brighter, the output is comparable although P90s can vary. I think these sound especially great for jazz, pop, and Rickenbacker-esque tones, they can impersonate a Hilotron as well in the bridge position. They have alnico slug magnets under the strings instead of steel screws, giving them a slightly more pure and clear high end, like a little Telecaster mixed in with a P90.

I'm not familiar with the other fat singles that you mentioned, but some here are, I understand them to be a good pickup similar to a P90 in tone.

My SFIII has a mismatched pair of old DeArmonds, they sound great, but a guitar with those in good original shape is in the same price range (or higher in some cases) as a single pickup ES 225 or maybe a 2 pickup sunburst model with some general wear or minor issues.

A more recent SF with actual P90s would obviously fit your bill and would be a lot of guitar for the money so long as you don't overpay initially. It has the advantage of having lots of available options to swap pickups without making any new holes.

 

[jp]

I've tried repeatedly to like similar Gibsons, but they just don't do it for me--ES-125, ES-225, ES-135, ES-137 (semi-hollow). I do, however, dig the 60s Epiphone Sorrentos, which have all had slimmer necks. None of them come close to the feel and punch of a Starfire of T-100.

Take the excellent advice from teleharmonium, and wait it out for a newer Starfire with P-90s, or if you're not worried about cosmetics, there always seems to be a few "honestly" worn T-100s for sale which you can mod without guilt.

 

[Walter Broes]

For Something with the general dimensions as a 225 (or 125) and as much punch as the double P90 version, you'd want either a T100D with Franz pickups, or a Starfire II or III with DeArmonds. A Franz pickup (or indeed an old DeArmond 200) will sound brighter and twangier than a Gibson P90, but they'll distort a small to medium size amp alright, just differently than the Gibson.

My own '61 SF III has SUPER hot DeArmonds that are hard to keep clean plugged into anything smaller than a twin, and the hot pickups make for a guitar that sounds slightly darker than you'd expect.

Both will sound different than the Gibson, but pack as much punch IMO. The single-coils Guild used later have cool tones, but not as much "weight" on stage IMO. Depends on what you're after - if your tastes run toward cleaner, thinner tones, you might prefer the later, 60's T-100's.

 

[mad dog]

You guys are so helpful. First, what are the later starfires with P90s? Do you mean 70s and later SF II or III. Did both come with P-90s as an option. And whar are those Dearmonds on the earlier ones. They look like Dynasonics.

The pickups I'd referred to on a T100D look different than those. White center with pole pieces, bound by a metal surround that has a pretty deep frame, or rim around the front of the pickup. Here's an example:

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDe ... em=1773846

Maybe this is the same pickup with a different surround, can't tell:

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDe ... em=1779267

Guess I'm looking for P-90 or equivalent. Have heard Mark Ribot playing a short-trapeze ES-225. Love the sounds from that P90 guitar, but certainly can't pay the freight. If I could get a non-Bigsby SF or T100D that sounds like that, I'd be a happy boy.

Michael D.

 

[teleharmonium]

mad dog, in the 90s and into the early 00s there was a version of the Starfire that came with P90s, I think some members here have that version. Duncan P90s, if I am remembering correctly.
Usually a Guild with original, vintage DeArmonds will have white topped 200s (aka Dynasonics), but some early versions have another model with just a single row of screws on top and an alnico bar magnet like a P90. They're also great pickups. However, bargains with original DeArmonds have gone the way of the dodo.
Both of your links point to guits with the Mickey Mouse single coils.

I thought Ribot was playing a two pickup, thin body ES125 with a trapeze tailpiece. The 225 would have the longer tailpiece/wraparound bridge combo unless it has been modded (unless there are exceptions that I haven't seen). He does get a good sound, but the amp is a big part of it (and I don't know what he uses). My T100 with Franz pickups into a 6V6 Ampeg Jet can do a pretty close imitation of that sound. The SFIII Spec with DeArmonds is also in that zone. I just turn the tone down a little with the older T100 and turn the volume down a little with the DeArmonds, compared to each other.
The more modern SF with P90s is essentially the same configuration as Ribot's guitar so that should nail it as well, but a 6V6 or 5881 cathode biased vintage amp is critical.

 

[mad dog]

Tele:

Damn, you're right, it's an ES-125. Every time I've seen Marc he runs through a BFVR, and does sound great. But there's more going on. He uses lots of effects, so that particular guitar can sound pretty different song to song. But the basic thing -- full hollow, thin body, short trapeze, P-90s -- is a big part of it. That's what I'm looking for, and I'd be even happier to find it in a Guild. Thanks for all the clues. now this dog has to hunt ...

 

[krysh]

what about this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Guild-Starfire-III- ... 0179219345

 

[jp]

That's a guy local to me. That's a perfect option for you mad dog, since the newer Starfire III-90s don't come around so often. Plus you get a little vintage vibe too, and someone else has already drilled the holes--your conscience is safe.

I actually talked to him on the phone because I really want to buy the mini-humbuckers! He said that he would give the buyer the option to have whichever set in the SFIII and sell the other set. So if you choose the P-90s mad dog, let me buy the mini-humbuckers!

If you get serious with this and want a little local help PM me. BTW, I think Marc Ribot is awesome too. I saw him quite a while ago on his solo tour for Rootless Compilations. He hears things so differently than other musicians, and it always sounds right!

 

[mad dog]

Krysh, JP: I did see that this AM. Sure does look sweet. But there is a concern. One of the pics shows what looks like separations on the headstock, where the tuner screws went in. Seller claims this is just a seam. Does that make sense? Is it common, as he claims. That part aside, this one could be perfect.

Since we're going deep on this, how much trouble would it be to take a Guild HB equipped SF II or III and swap out the HBs for P-90s? Is that the kind of no-no you wouldn't commit on a vintage guitar. (Clearly, it was committed on this one.) Since I've never had my hands on one, I could be vastly underestimating the Guild HBs. The only time I've heard them was in a 70s x-175. Really liked the neck p/u, less so the bridge. But the SF is a rather different instrument.

MD

 

[Jahn]

Gibsons (and Guilds) back then had headstocks with "Wings" - two pieces of wood attached to the side of the main neck/headstock. In fact, modern Martins have that too. Perfectly normal to have seams show, no worries that they'll pop off anytime soon, they aren't cracks from what was previously one piece of wood or anything.

FYI I owned a more recent 90's ES-135 and put Z-90s in there (like p-90s but fitting bucker routing) - nice axe but there's something about a nice old Guild Starfire, you know?

 

[krysh]

Krysh, JP: I did see that this AM. Sure does look sweet. But there is a concern. One of the pics shows what looks like separations on the headstock, where the tuner screws went in. Seller claims this is just a seam. Does that make sense? Is it common, as he claims. That part aside, this one could be perfect.

Since we're going deep on this, how much trouble would it be to take a Guild HB equipped SF II or III and swap out the HBs for P-90s? Is that the kind of no-no you wouldn't commit on a vintage guitar. (Clearly, it was committed on this one.) Since I've never had my hands on one, I could be vastly underestimating the Guild HBs. The only time I've heard them was in a 70s x-175. Really liked the neck p/u, less so the bridge. But the SF is a rather different instrument.

MD

hey mad dog,

guild necks are mostly 5 pieces at the headstock. this separation is only in finish where the 2 outer pices are glued. but even when this was in the wood, any luthier could fix this easily. but also notice the shrinking headstockcover (black), this is also common on many old guilds and also repairable. If I had some money to spent, this might the one I would buy.
concerning the HB's it is a matter of taste and style. I like the ones on my 90's sf4 very much.

edit: jahn was faster

 

[stevieboy]

I can't help any in finding one, but I just took some new pics yesterday, and can't resist posting. This is my SF III-90, I had a thread here on it when I first got it that you can find. Any further questions I'd be glad to answer if I can.

(And don't worry, I did see that nail sticking up out of the deck!)

 

[mad dog]

Steve:

That is one of the handsomest guitars I ever laid eyes on. Just beautiful. Man, if I can find one like that. Thanks!

Michael D.

 

[Jeff]

Here's one with Humbuckers.

People keep cloulding the issue, I'm having a challenge being 100% content till I have the opportunity to play one with P 90's.

 

[Guildocaster]

Hi Everyone!

I am new to the Guild world. I have been a GreTsch guy for awhile and wanted to get something with P-90's, so I recently purchased a Starfire III - P90 and a 1961 Gibson ES 125TC. Both guitars are excellent! But I really must say the Guild is outstanding. It does pretty much everything I wanted it to do. The P-90's sound great, in the middle position I can get a great "Rockabilly" sound which is what I like playing right now. I have attached a picture of my trio of archtop guitars. The one on the left is a Gretsch Brian Setzer Signature 6120SSL, the middle is the 1961 Gibson ES 125TC and of course on the right is the Guild Starfire III P90.
Hmmmm.....Need some help with the picture, can you download a picture to this site? If so could you let me know how.
Thanks!
Dave

 

[fronobulax]

Hi Everyone!

Welcome. To get a picture here, upload it to a host site and then use the IMG tag to link to it here. Can't upload it directly. If this doesn't point you in the right direction there are several threads with detailed instructions. Someone less lazy than I am will be along presently to give you a link.