Guild Starfire I SC Antique Burst Tune O Matic bridge details

[rufus]

Hi all, I recently bought the above which I am delighted with (My first semi hollow archtop type guitar) the only issues I have are the tuners aren't as good as they could be but I have some Grover 18:1 tuners that will solve that and the only other is I prefer to have Tusq saddles, all of my accoustics are tusqed up and it's the tone I prefer. I'm a home player with no aspirations to perform so i only need to cater for my own ear. I've seen Tune o Matic bridges before but not this particular one. It has a wire going the length of the bridge apparently holding the screws down. There are no stamp marks anywhere except for something that vaguely resembles an eigth note symbol (♪) I'm trying to find out which tusq saddles I need but need more info. Does anyone know which Tune o matic this Guild bridge is or is it actually unique to Guild. Also has anyone took this particular type apart before and are there any difficulties I should watch out for. Thanks for any assistance, it will be appreciated. Cheers.

 

[GAD]

Hi all, I recently bought the above which I am delighted with (My first semi hollow archtop type guitar) the only issues I have are the tuners aren't as good as they could be but I have some Grover 18:1 tuners that will solve that and the only other is I prefer to have Tusq saddles, all of my accoustics are tusqed up and it's the tone I prefer. I'm a home player with no aspirations to perform so i only need to cater for my own ear. I've seen Tune o Matic bridges before but not this particular one. It has a wire going the length of the bridge apparently holding the screws down. There are no stamp marks anywhere except for something that vaguely resembles an eigth note symbol (♪) I'm trying to find out which tusq saddles I need but need more info. Does anyone know which Tune o matic this Guild bridge is or is it actually unique to Guild. Also has anyone took this particular type apart before and are there any difficulties I should watch out for. Thanks for any assistance, it will be appreciated. Cheers.

It's a cheap import bridge.

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG rufus! GAD reviewed one of them, have a look here:

Guild Newark St. Starfire I SC Review | GAD's Ramblings

Here we have a 2020 Guild Starfire I SC (single cut) in Seafoam Green that I absolutely had to have based on the color alone. There is a fair bit of stir in the online guitar forums about these Starfire I guitars, most of which revolves around the question, how is Guild making these for …

www.gad.net

Ralf

 

[jp]

. . . I've seen Tune o Matic bridges before but not this particular one. It has a wire going the length of the bridge apparently holding the screws down. There are no stamp marks anywhere except for something that vaguely resembles an eigth note symbol (♪) I'm trying to find out which tusq saddles I need but need more info. Does anyone know which Tune o matic this Guild bridge is or is it actually unique to Guild. Also has anyone took this particular type apart before and are there any difficulties I should watch out for.

Welcome to the LTG forum!

As GAD stated, this is a cheap import knock-off, actually of the original ABR Gibson bridge which is known for making rattling noises. In his review, he also states that it's not the ideal type of bridge for use with a Bigsby. That type of bridge is not native to American-built Guilds but seems more like an inexpensive afterthought or a maybe perhaps a bulk pallet deal on Alibaba.

I would suggest that you definitely replace it with a better quality bridge. Although many players use Tune-o-matic type bridges successfully with Bigsbys, I prefer a bridge with roller saddles, but you may sacrifice sustain. If you want a spendier replacement, look up a Tru-arc or Compton solid bridge, which many here attest are the better option. You can also get a newer Bigsby rocker bridge, too.

Most importantly, make sure you get the stud spacing right for whatever bridge you choose, and check to make sure that the newer bridge can adjust down properly to get decent lower action. Many roller bridges are quite tall. If you go Bigsby, and if the stud spacing doesn't work, you can maybe remove the bridge studs and use a Bigsby or wooden base, which might cover the holes when it's properly in place. That's something you'll have to check yourself and decide if it's that's acceptable to you, of course.

 

[rufus]

Welcome to the LTG forum!

As GAD stated, this is a cheap import knock-off, actually of the original ABR Gibson bridge which is known for making rattling noises. In his review, he also states that it's not the ideal type of bridge for use with a Bigsby. That type of bridge is not native to American-built Guilds but seems more like an inexpensive afterthought or a maybe perhaps a bulk pallet deal on Alibaba.

I would suggest that you definitely replace it with a better quality bridge. Although many players use Tune-o-matic type bridges successfully with Bigsbys, I prefer a bridge with roller saddles, but you may sacrifice sustain. If you want a spendier replacement, look up a Tru-arc or Compton solid bridge, which many here attest are the better option. You can also get a newer Bigsby rocker bridge, too.

Most importantly, make sure you get the stud spacing right for whatever bridge you choose, and check to make sure that the newer bridge can adjust down properly to get decent lower action. Many roller bridges are quite tall. If you go Bigsby, and if the stud spacing doesn't work, you can maybe remove the bridge studs and use a Bigsby or wooden base, which might cover the holes when it's properly in place. That's something you'll have to check yourself and decide if it's that's acceptable to you, of course.

Thanks for the reply, I had researched and realised that the bridge was probably best replaced but was struggling on what to replace it with and finally went with this - ( https://www.thomann.de/gb/tonepros_lpgm02_g_tuneomatic_set_gold.htm ) which is en route to me right now, I got the gold because I aim to get new tuners and well, why not bling it up a bit, can't do any harm right. I'm also after reading the review you pointed me to going to do something about the wiring, he's right about the toggle switch but I know nothing about wiring so I will either re solder according to the wiring diagram on GAD's review or look for a ready wired loom set I can buy with new pots and switch but with their choice of using the volume controls for coil split it might be difficult to find one. Anyway that will wait until the new year. Mine is the Antique Burst with no Guildsby btw.

 

[jack.plugg]

Hello rufus.

I've got the very same guitar as you - and I couldn't be more happy with mine.



I bought it round about April this year and I've played it a lot since then, without any problems or concerns.

When the pandemic lockdown eased up and our band was able to start playing once again, it was the guitar that I took to every gig and I've played it Live pretty regularly since then. I have had no issues at all with the tuners, in fact it holds its tune very well. Same goes for the switch. It does the job fine. No issues at all. I'm not heavy-handed in my treatment of my guitars, but I don't use them with kid gloves either; I'd say that my Guild has been standing up very well to the rigours of being played on stage and I don't feel a need to change any of its hardware, not the bridge, nor the wiring, nor the switch, nor the tuners.

In defence of the new Starfire 1 SC, all I would suggest is that maybe the items on your guitar that you are concerned about are not inherently deficient. I can't see Guild, or any modern manufacturer, going to the bother of building such a nice instrument only to then equip it with shoddy parts that they know will quickly fail - and I don't think that they have. I'd say that the bridge and tuners on my new Starfire 1 SC are certainly good enough to do the job for me. It is a nice guitar and I expect to play it perfectly happily for quite a few years to come.

I hope you'll have the same feeling about your guitar in time rufus; maybe give it a just little longer before disassembling it?

Either way, I hope you'll have lots of fun with it.

Best wishes...

 

[LesB3]

I ordered a white one a few months ago, just for S&G's. Plus, with the 15% coupon, saved up points, and (eventual) further discounts, I paid almost half what these go for new. That being said, it was probably the worst "new" guitar I have ever purchased QC-wise.

First, it was missing the washer and nut to secure the output jack to the body. After scrounging one up that fits, I then noticed that a 1/4" plug will not seat properly, so you dont get a snug fit / "click" when inserting.



No matter... It still played.

After fiddling with the controls, I noticed that the neck pickup tone pot is not secured to the body at all, in fact the plastic cap is all that keeps the tone control in place. Another missing nut and washer. Speaking of controls, the neck pickup volume control is labelled "TONE" which means I have three knobs marked "TONE" and one marked "VOLUME." I guess the factory was out of washers and low on "VOLUME" knobs that day!!!



I will admit that the Snowcrest White model that I have is a very attractive guitar. There were some finish issues around the f-holes, however, and some areas where the binding wasn't properly scraped.

Tone-wise, I found it is best played clean, when adding *any* dirt, the sound gets very muddy, especially with the bridge pickup. The action is a little bit high and this guitar will likely require a setup.

Given that this thing shipped in a Martin Guitar Box and that they are (again) out of stock online, I'm going to see if I can get Guild to send me the washer / nuts / knobs instead.

 

[rufus]

Hello rufus.

I've got the very same guitar as you - and I couldn't be more happy with mine.



I bought it round about April this year and I've played it a lot since then, without any problems or concerns.

When the pandemic lockdown eased up and our band was able to start playing once again, it was the guitar that I took to every gig and I've played it Live pretty regularly since then. I have had no issues at all with the tuners, in fact it holds its tune very well. Same goes for the switch. It does the job fine. No issues at all. I'm not heavy-handed in my treatment of my guitars, but I don't use them with kid gloves either; I'd say that my Guild has been standing up very well to the rigours of being played on stage and I don't feel a need to change any of its hardware, not the bridge, nor the wiring, nor the switch, nor the tuners.

In defence of the new Starfire 1 SC, all I would suggest is that maybe the items on your guitar that you are concerned about are not inherently deficient. I can't see Guild, or any modern manufacturer, going to the bother of building such a nice instrument only to then equip it with shoddy parts that they know will quickly fail - and I don't think that they have. I'd say that the bridge and tuners on my new Starfire 1 SC are certainly good enough to do the job for me. It is a nice guitar and I expect to play it perfectly happily for quite a few years to come.

I hope you'll have the same feeling about your guitar in time rufus; maybe give it a just little longer before disassembling it?

Either way, I hope you'll have lots of fun with it.

Best wishes...

Not really concerned and I know that these parts would probably be fine but whenever I buy a cheap guitar I like to upgrade anything I can within my budget at the time. I have now ordered some Grover vintage rotomatic tuners, initially I wanted some Rubner tuners but couldn't find the specs anywhere for the ones I wanted so I went for the Grovers because I have had good results in the past. I'm now thinking about pickups so not finished yet. This is part of the enjoyment for me.

1

 

[rufus]

I ordered a white one a few months ago, just for S&G's. Plus, with the 15% coupon, saved up points, and (eventual) further discounts, I paid almost half what these go for new. That being said, it was probably the worst "new" guitar I have ever purchased QC-wise.

First, it was missing the washer and nut to secure the output jack to the body. After scrounging one up that fits, I then noticed that a 1/4" plug will not seat properly, so you dont get a snug fit / "click" when inserting.



No matter... It still played.

After fiddling with the controls, I noticed that the neck pickup tone pot is not secured to the body at all, in fact the plastic cap is all that keeps the tone control in place. Another missing nut and washer. Speaking of controls, the neck pickup volume control is labelled "TONE" which means I have three knobs marked "TONE" and one marked "VOLUME." I guess the factory was out of washers and low on "VOLUME" knobs that day!!!



I will admit that the Snowcrest White model that I have is a very attractive guitar. There were some finish issues around the f-holes, however, and some areas where the binding wasn't properly scraped.

Tone-wise, I found it is best played clean, when adding *any* dirt, the sound gets very muddy, especially with the bridge pickup. The action is a little bit high and this guitar will likely require a setup.

Given that this thing shipped in a Martin Guitar Box and that they are (again) out of stock online, I'm going to see if I can get Guild to send me the washer / nuts / knobs instead.

I think I might be tempted to return that one, I hope all turns out well in the end.

 

[LesB3]

To be honest, the Guild Customer Service team did get back to me very quickly and have shipped the missing parts out to me. They're much more responsive than the folks at Gibson, thats for sure...

I'm tempted to replace the pickups as well, but would have liked some "Guild-y" options. The S-D Psyclones I put in my Bluesbird sound *amazing* but I've got plenty of real Gretsch hollow-bodies so don't need a wannabe in the mix. If I replace with anything more main-stream, its just another Epiphone at that point. Dunno. I guess T-Armonds would be a cool option, but at that point I've got more money into the pickups than I do into the guitar itself.

 

[rufus]

Not really concerned and I know that these parts would probably be fine but whenever I buy a cheap guitar I like to upgrade anything I can within my budget at the time. I have now ordered some Grover vintage rotomatic tuners, initially I wanted some Rubner tuners but couldn't find the specs anywhere for the ones I wanted so I went for the Grovers because I have had good results in the past. I'm now thinking about pickups so not finished yet. This is part of the enjoyment for me.

 

[rufus]

So, the 18:1 Grovers I had which were on a Harley Benton SC custom wouldn't cover the existing holes so decided to order some Rubner tuners https://www.thomann.de/gb/rubner_150_840_open_tuners.htm which I really liked the look off but couldn't find any specs anywhere and finally went for these Grovers https://www.thomann.de/gb/grover_533g_vintage_locking_rotomatic.htm . The new bridge arrived. the inserts were too long so had to leave the original ones in but apart from that all went fine (will shorten the inserts with a junior hacksaw at a later date). Finished fitting the bridge and I have to say a definite improvement. I was getting a bit of an odd sound accoustically from e & b although it wasn't very noticeable through the amp, anyway it's gone. Intonated well and worth mentioning the tonepros bridge has much more room for intonation ( it's quite a bit wider ). So far so good but need to get some gold coloured pickup covers.

 

[rufus]

I'm continuing with this and will now change the pickups (I have to say the pickups that came with this guitar are really unimpressive) plus do something I have never done before and attempt a rewire. I have never tinkered with the wiring beyond soldering in some pickups in a guitar before so I've got a few questions I hope someone would help me with.
I've got a few pickups to try, some Toneriders, some Zebras of unknown origin and a set of Wilkinsons that I really liked in a LP copy so I'm considering installing a no solder kit to make it easy to interchange them. Has anyone tried no solder kits and does anyone recommend one in particular ?
Another question is about quality of switches. A friend suggested Switchcraft for the toggle switch and CTS for the pots. Can anyone suggest anything better or are these known to be good quality ?
What kind of wire should I use ?
Also I've seen these kits - https://www.allparts.uk.com/products/wiring-kit-for-335 - which have the same components my friend suggested. Am I better off buying then individually or is the difference in price negligible.
Many thanks for any help.

EDIT - I've seen what seems to be a better quality pre wired harness but quite a bit more expensive https://sixstringsupplies.co.uk/collections/prewired-harnesses/products/es-335-harness so I'm also considering this.

 

[jp]

Has anyone tried no solder kits and does anyone recommend one in particular ?
Another question is about quality of switches. A friend suggested Switchcraft for the toggle switch and CTS for the pots. Can anyone suggest anything better or are these known to be good quality ?
What kind of wire should I use ?
Also I've seen these kits - https://www.allparts.uk.com/products/wiring-kit-for-335 - which have the same components my friend suggested. Am I better off buying then individually or is the difference in price negligible.
Many thanks for any help.

EDIT - I've seen what seems to be a better quality pre wired harness but quite a bit more expensive https://sixstringsupplies.co.uk/collections/prewired-harnesses/products/es-335-harness so I'm also considering this.

I've never used a no solder kit, but if you tend to use the same type of pickups, i.e., 4-conductor humbuckers, then it makes sense.

Switchcraft and CTS are the solid standard for quality jacks and pots. Alpha, Bourns and some custom boutique-y brands (Seymour Duncan, Jim Dunlop) offer some fancier, non-standard options that are certainly dependable. I would suggest you do a little homework to choose the right ones for your pickup choice -- linear vs. audio taper, 500K vs 200/250/300K.

You can use standard 4-conductor wire like this, especially if you want to keep wiring options open like coil splitting.

If you want to avoid solder slinging, schematics, and poring over guitar electronics net articles, a pre-made harness may definitely be easier and worth the cost for you.

Hope this helps!

 

[rufus]

Thanks, I've actually stripped out the Guild electrics and I have ordered the kit from sixstring supplies but just the kit not the pre wired because I think it looks easy enough (I used to mod my games consoles - playstation etc - when younger)
The hardest bit will be instalation getting the lot through the sound F holes and pickup cavities, but as I said earlier this is a part of the enjoyment for me. I de soldered the black wire that looks like it goes to the stop bar or bridge and it's long enough for me to connect it to the new harness when it is assembled. I'm assuming this is earth can you confirm ? Thanks anyway for the advice.

 

[Guildedagain]

I ordered a white one a few months ago, just for S&G's. Plus, with the 15% coupon, saved up points, and (eventual) further discounts, I paid almost half what these go for new. That being said, it was probably the worst "new" guitar I have ever purchased QC-wise.

First, it was missing the washer and nut to secure the output jack to the body. After scrounging one up that fits, I then noticed that a 1/4" plug will not seat properly, so you dont get a snug fit / "click" when inserting.



No matter... It still played.

After fiddling with the controls, I noticed that the neck pickup tone pot is not secured to the body at all, in fact the plastic cap is all that keeps the tone control in place. Another missing nut and washer. Speaking of controls, the neck pickup volume control is labelled "TONE" which means I have three knobs marked "TONE" and one marked "VOLUME." I guess the factory was out of washers and low on "VOLUME" knobs that day!!!



I will admit that the Snowcrest White model that I have is a very attractive guitar. There were some finish issues around the f-holes, however, and some areas where the binding wasn't properly scraped.

Tone-wise, I found it is best played clean, when adding *any* dirt, the sound gets very muddy, especially with the bridge pickup. The action is a little bit high and this guitar will likely require a setup.

Given that this thing shipped in a Martin Guitar Box and that they are (again) out of stock online, I'm going to see if I can get Guild to send me the washer / nuts / knobs instead.

It is always astounding to me how great guitars sound clean, in all positions, in the neck position, fantastic, full, yet awful - muddy - through any kind of distortion, which we insist on using anyway, then we spend a ton on pedals that don't make your guitar worse than it does by itself, full, round, bouncy and dynamic, and we want to crush that into a little square wave that turns the bottom to mud...

 

[jp]

The hardest bit will be instalation getting the lot through the sound F holes and pickup cavities, but as I said earlier this is a part of the enjoyment for me. I de soldered the black wire that looks like it goes to the stop bar or bridge and it's long enough for me to connect it to the new harness when it is assembled. I'm assuming this is earth can you confirm ? Thanks anyway for the advice.

If you're savvy enough to mod consoles, then I'm certain you can solder up a harness. And you're right, the messiest part is definitely threading the wired harness into the body using string or tubing, but you're probably also savvy enough to see examples on youtube. It's actually not too bad.

And yes, that wire going to the bridge or stop bar is most likely the earth, or ground wire.

 

[LesB3]

It is always astounding to me how great guitars sound clean, in all positions, in the neck position, fantastic, full, yet awful - muddy - through any kind of distortion, which we insist on using anyway, then we spend a ton on pedals that don't make your guitar worse than it does by itself, full, round, bouncy and dynamic, and we want to crush that into a little square wave that turns the bottom to mud...

Well, to clarify, I didn't say it sounded "great" just that that was the "best" way this guitar sounds to me (relatively speaking). If I'm to be perfectly honest, I should have said it was the "only" way this guitar was playable. Not exactly surprised by that though, almost every Asian-made pickup *on a hollow-body* sounds that way to me (whether it is an Epi P-90, "Gretsch-bucker" or this Guild).

 

[rufus]

Just to update, been too busy to do anything to this for a while but now have time to get back to this. Reviewed what I'd done so far when I noticed a glaring issue that I really should have noticed. The kit I had ordered has the toggle switch as you probably all know in the Gibson 335 position which is miles away from the upper bout bass side so no good as the cable is not long enough and would probably need to be wired differently to connect everything to the switch so much farther away. Luckily sixstring supplies were very understanding and a refund was received. I have now bought the parts and wire individually and intend to do it myself.
I have an important question I would appreciate a quick answer too. In the diagram I am following there is an earth wire going all the way around all four potentiometers which gives them all common earth. Does this wire need to be shielded. Or as it isn't hot can it be left (this will affect which wire I use). I could use a braided wire or just some tinned cop-per wire.
Anyway I also got some Tonerider pickups for this guitar. Hopefully will get to it this weekend.

EDIT -
Forgot to add, I have an idea for instalation and wondered if anyone had tried anything similar. In UK we have things called pipe cleaners which I am sure you also have in US. They are soft bendy wire which has a certain stiffness (but not much) covered on a thin soft fur. I was in a craft shop the other day and they had pipe cleaners only around 2 - 3 times longer than the real ones and they're in a variety of colours. I bought some and tried one on a CTS pot. You can twist it around the shaft beloqw the knurled part where it is slimmer and I had a practice, I was able to install a potentiometer (not wired up) and once I had stuck the pipe cleaner and pot into the guitar and fished the pipe cleaner up through the hole for the pot using a pick and hook set I was able to pull the pot through the hole with the pipe cleaner on it and put on the washer and nut before untwisting the pipe cleaner. It was easy, of course I haven't tried it with a full harness yet but definitely promising. I also was able to install (again unwired) the jack socket using a slightly different yet similarly simple method quite easily. My idea is designate each component a different colour and mke a note of it. Put them all in the guitar as neatly and as close to the correct position asd possible pipe cleaners first and then fish them to the right place as is needed.
Anyway, that's it. Don't forget, do I need to shield that earth wire, thanks.

 

[GAD]

Just to update, been too busy to do anything to this for a while but now have time to get back to this. Reviewed what I'd done so far when I noticed a glaring issue that I really should have noticed. The kit I had ordered has the toggle switch as you probably all know in the Gibson 335 position which is miles away from the upper bout bass side so no good as the cable is not long enough and would probably need to be wired differently to connect everything to the switch so much farther away. Luckily sixstring supplies were very understanding and a refund was received. I have now bought the parts and wire individually and intend to do it myself.
I have an important question I would appreciate a quick answer too. In the diagram I am following there is an earth wire going all the way around all four potentiometers which gives them all common earth. Does this wire need to be shielded. Or as it isn't hot can it be left (this will affect which wire I use). I could use a braided wire or just some tinned cop-per wire.
Anyway I also got some Tonerider pickups for this guitar. Hopefully will get to it this weekend.

EDIT -
Forgot to add, I have an idea for instalation and wondered if anyone had tried anything similar. In UK we have things called pipe cleaners which I am sure you also have in US. They are soft bendy wire which has a certain stiffness (but not much) covered on a thin soft fur. I was in a craft shop the other day and they had pipe cleaners only around 2 - 3 times longer than the real ones and they're in a variety of colours. I bought some and tried one on a CTS pot. You can twist it around the shaft beloqw the knurled part where it is slimmer and I had a practice, I was able to install a potentiometer (not wired up) and once I had stuck the pipe cleaner and pot into the guitar and fished the pipe cleaner up through the hole for the pot using a pick and hook set I was able to pull the pot through the hole with the pipe cleaner on it and put on the washer and nut before untwisting the pipe cleaner. It was easy, of course I haven't tried it with a full harness yet but definitely promising. I also was able to install (again unwired) the jack socket using a slightly different yet similarly simple method quite easily. My idea is designate each component a different colour and mke a note of it. Put them all in the guitar as neatly and as close to the correct position asd possible pipe cleaners first and then fish them to the right place as is needed.
Anyway, that's it. Don't forget, do I need to shield that earth wire, thanks.

Ground wires are often just bare solid wire. Shielded wire certainly wouldn't hurt but you usually ground the shield anyway which makes it kind of pointless. On a hollow-body the ground wire is often insulated, though. My guess being that this allows easier to bend stranded wire to be used so that it's easier to maneuver the pots while trying to install them.

Re: pipe cleaners, sounds good to me! Just be careful because if they're like the ones I have here, pulling on them against the holes could lead to abrasion on the side of the hole. Be careful and it shouldn't be an issue. I've used tubing, dental floss, and my favorite - a specially twisted old coat hanger piece.