Guild F30- what's the bracing there?

[Bonneville88]

Tommy, thanks for linking that post - interesting about the differences
in bracing and tone of the 72 vs 73.
The body depth difference between them does indeed look similar to the
difference between the Westerly F30 mini-jumbo body and the F30 orchestra body.
I may go take a photo of my Westerly F30R and the Westerly mini-jumbo to
compare, the difference may be even more than with the Froggy Bottom.
The fretboard on the Froggy Bottom looks wide, gotta be comfortable
to play.

 

[Bonneville88]

Tommy - thanks for clarifying that. I kept looking at the photo thinking
that fretboard on that Froggy might be more than 1 3/4", almost like a classical guitar width.
The shallow radius of it probably makes it appear that way in the photo.

 

[bobouz]

Another thing I noticed between the 72 and 73 F30 is that they both have HUGE bridge plates; the 72 made of maple, the 73 made of rosewood. As far as the top bracing goes, the 72 has two (2) tone bars, the 73 has three (3) tone bars.

Very interesting. I just checked my ‘73 F-30R (initial year for the mini-jumbo ‘R’ version). It has the rosewood bridgeplate, but only two tone bars (south of the bridgeplate & X-bracing).

 

[Rayk]

Very interesting. I just checked my ‘73 F-30R (initial year for the mini-jumbo ‘R’ version). It has the rosewood bridgeplate, but only two tone bars (south of the bridgeplate & X-bracing).

Jumping in late but thats one guitar I'm interested In may I ask how does it sound ?

 

[bobouz]

Does yours have a huge bridge plate too?

Oh yes, no bellying allowed with these babies! Paradoxically, as much as they tend to be criticized, tonally some of the most satisfying instruments I’ve owned have had rosewood bridgeplates, including this one and a 1970 00-18 Martin that was my #1 for twenty years.

 

[bobouz]

Jumping in late but thats one guitar I'm interested In may I ask how does it sound ?

Yes Ray, we actually touched on this in another thread a little while back. It’s got a strong bass with depth & presence, but clear treble tones as well. The surprise is that it’s more percussive in nature than being full of overtones. This might not be the ideal sound for a strummer, but it’s exactly what I prefer for fingerpicking!

 

[Bonneville88]

That we're talking about two '73 30Rs with different bracing is intriguing...

 

[Rayk]

Yes Ray, we actually touched on this in another thread a little while back. It’s got a strong bass with depth & presence, but clear treble tones as well. The surprise is that it’s more percussive in nature than being full of overtones. This might not be the ideal sound for a strummer, but it’s exactly what I prefer for fingerpicking!

If I was part of that discussion I totally forgot. lol
It be interesting to see photos of the bracing or did I miss that too . Lol

 

[Rayk]

Tom... heh... me too - hard to think any Guild as a Volvo!

Why'd I sell it... I got unexpectedly into F30s awhile back, and then just really wanted to
try different ones. Ended up with several Westerlys and two New Hartfords.
One of the Westerlys, think it's an '80, has the "small jumbo" body, all the others have
what I consider the "authentic" F30 body. It's a handsome instrument - pic attached - and a great
player, but it doesn't play, sound, look or feel similar to the smaller, thinner F30 body style that
preceded and then succeeded it.

After awhile, I found myself mostly going between the small jumbo '80 and the
one of the New Hartfords, an F30R burst. So I realized I'd mostly done what I wanted
to do as far as F30s - except - still looking out for a nice Hoboken with
the 1 11/16 nut, as the 1 5/8" would be a no go.

And I guess I just like enjoying, experiencing and comparing instruments for awhile
and eventually sending them on for others to try. The endless variety of
voices the different guitars have - and the different music they
mysteriously and serendipitously inspire - remains compelling.

OMG that sexy hot !

 

[bobouz]

That we're talking about two '73 30Rs with different bracing is intriguing...

Actually, Tommy’s with three braces is a mahogany ‘73 F-30, and mine with two braces is a rosewood ‘73 F-30R. But still, it’s kinda weird!

 

[Rayk]

Sorry for the terrible picture, but all my good photographic equipment is out on loan for the time being. I'm just using my old cell phone for now.

This is my 1973 F30 6 String. You can see in the image below that there are three (3) tone bars to the left side of the x-bracing, three (3) tone bars to the right side of the x-bracing, and three (3) tone bars below the x-bracing. This bracing looks like it was intended for the F112 12 String. My 1972 F30 6 String has two (2) tone bars to the left side of the x-bracing, two (2) tone bars to the right side of the x-bracing, and two (2) tone bars below the x-bracing. As mentioned earlier, the difference in sound / tone / etc. between the two is very very slight, and only noticeable when doing a side by side comparison. The 1973 with all this additonal bracing is actually a wee bit sweeter in tone than the 1972. Go figure!

Tommy

Cool

 

[Bonneville88]

Tommy, how'd you take that photo?

 

[Bonneville88]

Very cool - gonna try that!

 

[GardMan]

These are the lights I used... 3/$10 at home depot. I used 6-10 lights inside for imaging the bracing in my dreads. You can read all about it here...

 

[Bonneville88]

These are the lights I used... 3/$10 at home depot. I used 6-10 lights inside for imaging the bracing in my dreads. You can read all about it here...

Gman, hadn't seen this for awhile, thanks for the fresh links! What a cool resource!
Looking at Tommy's pic and your images, surprised how red the back-lit spruce illuminates.

 

[GardMan]

Gman, hadn't seen this for awhile, thanks for the fresh links! What a cool resource!
Looking at Tommy's pic and your images, surprised how red the back-lit spruce illuminates.

Maybe for the same reason smoky days make beautiful red sunsets... longer wavelength (red) light is scattered less as it passes thru the top...

 

[adorshki]

Thanks so much Dave!

Seems my 1973 F30 mahogany 6 string may eligable to win a Guild "Built like a Tank" award!

I just wonder if mine was just a fluke?

Tommy

Several years ago a member posted about his F30 that had a replaced top. When Hans saw pics of the bracing he said it was actually an F112 top, so wondering if this is all related.
At the time it was suspected that the F112 top was simply what was readily available to complete the top replacement quickly, but now, due to multiple reports of "top anomalies", wondering if what you're describing was part of an evolutionary process in re-tuning F30 tops.
After all these years I've seen it was actually pretty common for Guild to implement changes in spec or build technique during production as opposed to waiting for a new model year to come around.
There could be other explanations such as using 12-string tops due to their being "ready" and perhaps not having the flexibility to wait for regular F30 tops to get made, or simple economic or other pressures demanding use of available inventory, too.
So I don't think yours is actually a "fluke" as much as an "evolutionary step".
But in any case after multiple comments about F30 top bracing variations I don't think yours is actually a "fluke" as much as an "evolutionary step", anymore.
GuiIldedagain bought an F30 that had something strange going on with its top, too:

The Mystery Guild, prepare for the weird...

I got a new old Guild in the mail, it's weird. Not even sure where to go with this one, maybe take it slow. I'll write more as soon as I do a chore. ;-) For now, I'm calling it "The Mummy" and I even had wifey almost spooked with it last night fingerpicking 30 year old strings three steps...

letstalkguild.com

And interestingly enough his neckblock was stamped "F112", as if they moved some F112 bodies (and maybe the tops too?) over to 6-string completion, so there's another possibility, too: maybe they over-forecast F112 demand and switched 'em when orders failed to materialize?
And the thing about bracing difference between a 'hog body and rosewood may be intentional, too.

 

[F30!]

Hello, I have a Dec. 1974 dated F30 6 string with the same 3 tone bar bracing as Tommy's. The neck block has an F112 stamp on it. Large rosewood bridge plate. Bought the guitar new in early 75'.

Edit: I took another look at the underside of the top of my F30 and it has a green stamp date of Dec. 1973.

 

[adorshki]

Hello, I have a Dec. 1974 dated F30 6 string with the same bracing as Tommy's. The neck block has an F112 stamp on it. Large rosewood bridge plate. Bought the guitar new in early 75'.

NOW I wonder what Hans has to say.
I can only think of 2 possibilities:
A: F30's and F112 got the same rims during this period, and they all got marked "F112" to ensure it was recognized that the unfinished rims were suitable for 12-string use, (For clarity this is a hypothesis not a statement of fact)
or else
B: they really did "convert" a bunch of 12-string bodies to 6-string finished pieces.

 

[bobouz]

Fwiw, my two-brace F-30R is stamped Nov 1973 (two tone-bars south of the bridgeplate, and two small braces both east & west of the bridgeplate) - no F-112 marking.

Seems like the most probable explanation would be that Guild was coverting F-112 tops to the F-30’s 6-string configuration, based on sales demand or projections at a given moment in time.