Guild Archtops -2007
- Thread starter raywood1
- Start date
The last Guild archtops -- or any electrics for that matter -- were produced in Corona, CA.
Charlie Vegas
Junior Member
What archtops?raywood1 said:
The Electrics Tirade
Guild Archtop electric out of production?
Rise of the Phoenix?
Guild No Longer Making the Dave Gonzales Model?
jp
Senior Member
If I had to put aside my passion and obsession for Guilds and analyze from a cold, rational, bottom-line, business-marketing perspective, I'd say that the FMIC group is a little slow on the draw. :|
I'm pretty amazed that none of the "brand marketing whizzes" at FMIC have a clue about how much "indie cred" the Guild brand name has. During the last 10 years, with the huge resurgence of interest in not only vintage gear but hollow body instruments, FMIC hasn't reacted or capitalized on the Guild trademark. I think that every single guitar company has put out hollow and semi-hollow instruments to react to the demand, which has even reached teenagers. This is a no-brainer folks. When everyone from Hamer to Dean to Washburn to PRS to Yamaha is putting out hollow and semi-hollow guitars, why would they pass up the chance?
I've seen young kids in GC holding hollow body archtop Ibanez guitars and basses saying, "Wow!" I think it's amazing that some 14-yr-old is more interested in the Artcore bass instead of a skull-adorned, gloom-and-doom bass that's perfectly shaped to stab someone! My generation was clueless. My first real playable guitar was a used EKO 290 Barracuda with the super long trem arm. Little did I know I had a TOTL instrument in my hands, and all I wanted was a solid body rock machine. The kids are so much more savvy nowadays. A lot of the pretty hip artists are playing vintage Guilds -- The Raconteurs, Nora Jones, Spoon, Feist, etc.
Related Guild spottings younay have seen -- electrics only baby!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrG0CVoG_ww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZZ1Gd5qjc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxrYqUj3_Fo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KBJwjDsYq0
FMIC could even make a big deal about rolling out the "new" Guild electric line and stage a huge star-powered event. Imagine reissuing the M-85 semi-hollow bass! Or the Polaras. Heck even the Germans at Hofner had the foresight to reissue the Club Basses and violin basses in both high-end and inexpensive versions! And they don't even live in the States!
Unfortunately it ends up being our loss as well! Okay tirade over.
I'm pretty amazed that none of the "brand marketing whizzes" at FMIC have a clue about how much "indie cred" the Guild brand name has. During the last 10 years, with the huge resurgence of interest in not only vintage gear but hollow body instruments, FMIC hasn't reacted or capitalized on the Guild trademark. I think that every single guitar company has put out hollow and semi-hollow instruments to react to the demand, which has even reached teenagers. This is a no-brainer folks. When everyone from Hamer to Dean to Washburn to PRS to Yamaha is putting out hollow and semi-hollow guitars, why would they pass up the chance?
I've seen young kids in GC holding hollow body archtop Ibanez guitars and basses saying, "Wow!" I think it's amazing that some 14-yr-old is more interested in the Artcore bass instead of a skull-adorned, gloom-and-doom bass that's perfectly shaped to stab someone! My generation was clueless. My first real playable guitar was a used EKO 290 Barracuda with the super long trem arm. Little did I know I had a TOTL instrument in my hands, and all I wanted was a solid body rock machine. The kids are so much more savvy nowadays. A lot of the pretty hip artists are playing vintage Guilds -- The Raconteurs, Nora Jones, Spoon, Feist, etc.
Related Guild spottings younay have seen -- electrics only baby!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrG0CVoG_ww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZZ1Gd5qjc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxrYqUj3_Fo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KBJwjDsYq0
FMIC could even make a big deal about rolling out the "new" Guild electric line and stage a huge star-powered event. Imagine reissuing the M-85 semi-hollow bass! Or the Polaras. Heck even the Germans at Hofner had the foresight to reissue the Club Basses and violin basses in both high-end and inexpensive versions! And they don't even live in the States!
Unfortunately it ends up being our loss as well! Okay tirade over.
Great clips, jp! Thanks!
walrus
walrus
guildzilla
Senior Member
Great post, JP. You covered a lot of ground there. Also, good to hear from Charlie again and revisit those threads.
I'm baffled by the whole thing. FMIC's failure to harness the marketing engine of artists using Guild electrics is just another piece of the picture that they don't seem to see.
The door seems wide open, doesn't it? And to go along with that, I've been hearing from music store and guitar people that the quality of the new Gibson stuff has gone downhill over the last few years.
That said, I have so little faith in FMIC as it relates to Guild that I'm not sure I really want them to reintroduce the electric line. I don't trust them. If they do reintroduce electrics, I doubt they will be American-made. I have nightmares about Squier Bluesbirds and Starfires. The corporate trend to manufacture overseas is so much stronger today compared to a decade ago.
As Guild fans, we would surely celebrate if FMIC reintroduced American-made electrics, but FMIC investors are a far more important audience to them.
So my pure speculation is that FMIC discusses relaunching Guild electrics but only as an overseas launch.
I hope I'm wrong.
I'm baffled by the whole thing. FMIC's failure to harness the marketing engine of artists using Guild electrics is just another piece of the picture that they don't seem to see.
The door seems wide open, doesn't it? And to go along with that, I've been hearing from music store and guitar people that the quality of the new Gibson stuff has gone downhill over the last few years.
That said, I have so little faith in FMIC as it relates to Guild that I'm not sure I really want them to reintroduce the electric line. I don't trust them. If they do reintroduce electrics, I doubt they will be American-made. I have nightmares about Squier Bluesbirds and Starfires. The corporate trend to manufacture overseas is so much stronger today compared to a decade ago.
As Guild fans, we would surely celebrate if FMIC reintroduced American-made electrics, but FMIC investors are a far more important audience to them.
So my pure speculation is that FMIC discusses relaunching Guild electrics but only as an overseas launch.
I hope I'm wrong.
hideglue
Senior Member
Also just speculation, but acquiring and nurturing Guild was always Mr. Schultz's project. His "baby" as he had said. I wonder - now that he has passed - just how enthusiastic the remaining brass at FMIC still get with the Guild line.
Charlie Vegas
Junior Member
Well we're a week away from the Summer NAMM trade show and the only addition I'm predicting is another post to the The Electrics Tirade thread.
Thanks for the fine post and links JP ... I must've had just stepped out for a grilled cheese when this went up. Maybe it's a 'rice bowl' issue at FMI; too many people with careers staked out on the sucess of Jizzcasters - nobody willing to risk enhancing the G brand at the expense of the F brand ... who knows ...jp said:
Regards
cj
GuildAAPlayer
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One thing that particularly amazed me was the nearly complete lack of information from the company. At best, it strikes me as quite insensitive to a whole lot of guitar lovers. They had a beautiful line of high quality guitars with a reputation and following that went back some 50 years.
I might have missed something (but not for lack of trying) -- I've never found any press announcements or corporate statements about what they intended to do with the Guild line of archtops, before or after they simply disappeared from the lineup. Buying and burying a high-end brand name as they did is certainly a blow to the archtop market.
I do suppose they gave it a serious effort, especially with the Benedetto partnership efforts. I haven't played one of those later X700s or AAs, but they have to be about as good as it can get, especially from a corporate manufacturer. But, that's probably also the main reason for the Guild demise because a corporation has far too many middle men who think they need a large share of the proceeds for executive salaries, for example. And, of course that kind of an organization is best for tweaking production costs on higher volume lines, etc. Perhaps there is no way that shareholder concerns and archtop player interests would ever match up very well.
Finally, there does seem to be a growing list of private luthiers who are committed to equaling or surpassing the quality of anything the established companies are willing to put out there. The main problem about that is when someone like me decides to tie up thousands of $$$ in archtop guitars, I felt it important to "play it safe" by sticking with name brand "G" archtops that would have a much wider market for resale if that ever becomes necessary.
George
I might have missed something (but not for lack of trying) -- I've never found any press announcements or corporate statements about what they intended to do with the Guild line of archtops, before or after they simply disappeared from the lineup. Buying and burying a high-end brand name as they did is certainly a blow to the archtop market.
I do suppose they gave it a serious effort, especially with the Benedetto partnership efforts. I haven't played one of those later X700s or AAs, but they have to be about as good as it can get, especially from a corporate manufacturer. But, that's probably also the main reason for the Guild demise because a corporation has far too many middle men who think they need a large share of the proceeds for executive salaries, for example. And, of course that kind of an organization is best for tweaking production costs on higher volume lines, etc. Perhaps there is no way that shareholder concerns and archtop player interests would ever match up very well.
Finally, there does seem to be a growing list of private luthiers who are committed to equaling or surpassing the quality of anything the established companies are willing to put out there. The main problem about that is when someone like me decides to tie up thousands of $$$ in archtop guitars, I felt it important to "play it safe" by sticking with name brand "G" archtops that would have a much wider market for resale if that ever becomes necessary.
George
capnjuan said:
True about buying Tacoma which makes perfect sense for flattop production because the Corona plant is geared towards making electric guitars. What doesn't make sense is that since Corona IS an electric guitar plant, and they already moved archtop and Bluesbird production there (and made some very nice guitars); the only competition for quality US made archtops is Gibson and Gretsch, (followed by Ibanez and the hit and miss Eastmans made in China) so why didn't they stay in as a competitor in a market that they dominate with other brands???? With their clout with GC and other retailers they can get plenty of shelf space.
jp
Senior Member
Lots of good points made above. The scenario that hideglue explains seems very plausible. This situation often sinks newly signed bands when their A&R person is suddenly gone and they've lost someone to champion their music. It happens way too often.
Also, the fact that FMI owns two strong archtop brands, Gretsch and Benedetto, leaves them with conflict of interest and market saturation issues. However, with the purchase of Guild, came something that hundreds of companies would kill for--a well-established brand name with the rich history and fan base to back it. Companies spent gazillions of dollars to have that kind of brand name recognition. In addition, many of the actual models have established clout, as well as singular designs for which there are rather few similar contending models out there.
Unfortunately, the next probable step is for the Asian importers to start knocking off Bluebirds, Polaras, M-85s, S-series, etc. The Dearmond line examples already demand quite a bit of cash in Europe. Despite the quality of those guitars, I think they made a mistake and should have just continued with a higher quality guild line. It'll be interesting to see if FMI decides to just let the Guild electric line wither on the vine. Quite a shame.
Also, the fact that FMI owns two strong archtop brands, Gretsch and Benedetto, leaves them with conflict of interest and market saturation issues. However, with the purchase of Guild, came something that hundreds of companies would kill for--a well-established brand name with the rich history and fan base to back it. Companies spent gazillions of dollars to have that kind of brand name recognition. In addition, many of the actual models have established clout, as well as singular designs for which there are rather few similar contending models out there.
Unfortunately, the next probable step is for the Asian importers to start knocking off Bluebirds, Polaras, M-85s, S-series, etc. The Dearmond line examples already demand quite a bit of cash in Europe. Despite the quality of those guitars, I think they made a mistake and should have just continued with a higher quality guild line. It'll be interesting to see if FMI decides to just let the Guild electric line wither on the vine. Quite a shame.
dklsplace
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jp said:
Not quite. Fender has never owned either. They have a licensing & marketing agreement with Gretsch, & I believe had something similar with Benedetto. However, Benedetto recently severed that relationship (apparently under good terms) & no longer have an affiliation with FMIC.
jp
Senior Member
Ahh, didn't know that. Even more reasons to go forward with the an elite Guild line of jazz archtops. Although there are exceptions, Gretsches always seem to have been favored more by the rockabilly-country picking crowd, while Guilds archtops have more appeal to the jazz, blues, and rock and roll players.
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
Erm...Not in the Europe I live in. All guitars are more expensive over here, but comparatively speaking, DeArmonds go for normal second hand prices, not "quite a bit of cash".jp said:
Let's not create myths here.
jp
Senior Member
Okay, maybe I should have been more specific. Perhaps overstated with "quite a bit of cash." When I lived there (as well as recent visits), the examples I saw seemed more expensive than in the States. Korean-made instruments don't tend to hold their value that well here.
For example, I saw a Dearmond Starfire Special in music store for the equivalent of about $825. Normally it would sell for anywhere from $500-650 here. A friend of bought an M-75T for about $200 more than one usually sees them for here in the States. Just my experiences.
For example, I saw a Dearmond Starfire Special in music store for the equivalent of about $825. Normally it would sell for anywhere from $500-650 here. A friend of bought an M-75T for about $200 more than one usually sees them for here in the States. Just my experiences.
capnjuan said:
Word I got a couple months back, filtered a bit from the alleged NW Guild Rep thru Smitty at the local shop here in town, the Tacoma Guild plant is under some pressure to meet production numbers. Inference was the plant hasn't attained profitability, & needs to meet some yet unattained production number to do so.
Likely some merit in the rumour.
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
Yep, the shipping and taxes/duties take a lot of the fun out of "cheap" guitars over here that way, by the time you have them in your hands, often they're not all that cheap any more.dklsplace said: