GF-60R

[Guest]

Hey people,
I'm new to this web site to please bear with me while I get up to speed on what's happening and where to go for my interests.

Way back in the late 80's, I bought a new GF-50 which was a great guitar. In 1992, my home in Jersey City (up the hil from the old Guild factory in Hoboken) was burglarized and and several of my guitars were robbed including the Guild.

I had home insurance and was able to recover the $ but at that point Guild had stopped making that model. In 1994 I was able to get a used GF-60 from Elderly Instruments ($800) which I have had ever since.

At that time I wrote George Gruhn about my guitar and the earlier F series that he was associated with. He wrote back confirming that it was the same instrument as the F-46 he had designed but that he was not working with Guild anymore.

Since then I have played the hell out of the guitar and it shows the signs but is still a great guitar. I like a slightly wider neck but what you see is what you get.

Glad to find other folks who have and are enthusiatic about this instrument.
Dave Cline

 

[SmithfieldFair]

The same???

Hi, Dave and welcome aboard. I own three GF25s and really feel they have been the perfect guitar for me on the road. I use them in the studio, but the predominant studio guitar for me is my 1975 G37. I have other things, but those are my daily uses.

I'm curious about your posting on the GF60. Do I understand you to say that the Gruhn designed GF60 and F46 are virtually the same guitar? That's interesting - I never knew that. I prefer the GF25 in George's series because of the arched mahogany back. It really does a lot for the warmth, muscle and projection. I've had a discourse with George before about this but my '87 is dramatically different in several ways (thickness/depth at the lower bout, neck profile & 'fastness', etc.) from my '88 and '90. George never knew they changed the specs, but then, he left in '87 as they were coming out. Actually, I prefer the changed design - slight things that make a big difference - but then, Guild (pre-Fender) always was a player's shop.

Best to you...dbs

 

[guildzilla]

From 1986 to 1987, the F-46 (rosewood) becomes the GF-60R and the F-44 (maple) becomes the GF-60M.

Similarly, the D-66 (rosewood) becomes the D-60. The 86' D-64 (maple), however, is not offered in '87.

This is all a renaming thing, however. The guitars, advertised in '86 as Gruhn-designed Guilds, are unchanged (so far as I can see and read), including the slotted diamond inlays which distinguish these models. The info I'm sharing here comes from the Guild promotion copy for those two years.

I started a thread going which asks what came before and what happened after in terms of Guild acoustic design.

 

[john_kidder]

The slotted diamond inlays were slightly fatter on the F-44, -46 et al, that on the successor GF-s.

 

[Jeff]

Interesting variation on fretboard inlay,

John Kidder's GF 60R #9 on the left; Fran's, GF 60R # 75 (now mine) on the right.

[img:400:300]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/john_kidder/1987%20Guild%20GF-60R/gf-60_fretboard_inlay.jpg[/img] [img:450:338]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid224/paeb054edff7c37d4e56e779cf2f199f2/ea9e9cf3.jpg[/img]

Both seem to have the same big frets. Chris Jensen at Jensen music in Santa Barbara referred to them as Gibson style frets.

 

[guildzilla]

Interesting and confirms what John Kidder posted in correcting my misstatement.

I've previously thought no change at all from F-44 to GF-60 because the 1987 promo piece I have shows the fatter inlays on the GF-60. And if I'm not mistaken, the same is true of the guitar shown in ads with Eric Clapton at that time.

The 1987 promo for the Limited Edition S-60 shows the slimmer diamond inlays.

Perhaps Hans could tell us. Did Guild continue to use the older, fatter inlay in 1987 until they were gone and then convert?

 

[iamru02]

This is some very good info as I keep my eyes open for an F or GF.
Does anyone know if there were changes to the tuners as well? A change that might help identify the era?
I only ask because I made an observation concerning the dreds during, ending, and after the Gruhn era. The D-60 (after Gruhn) is advertised to have gold tuners. The most recent 1986 D-66 (during Gruhn) that sold on E-bay also had gold tuners. My 85 (possibly early 86) D-66 has "Gotoh rib back tuners made as copies of the original Kluson rib back tuners of the 1950's" and the 1984 D-66 that was on E-bay a while back, had rib back tuners. Of course 84 and 85 are definately Gruhn years. I'm just noting that there were apparently changes made in some Gruhn designed models, at least with the dreads.
Having re-read "Tuning Machines" in Hans' book, I assume tuners do help identify certain time frames and models as do the unmistakable slotted diamond inlays, both fat and thin, for these guitars.
According to the inaccurate Dating Charts, the D-60 continued until 1990, and again from 94 to 95. Based on the model numbers in 95, only 15 were made that year. I wonder if the large slotted diamond inlay was used on the 94-95 reissues. May help answer the question as to supply numbers that guildzilla refers to.
And a Hardy welcome to Dave!

 

[Jeff]

Does anyone know if there were changes to the tuners as well

These are the tuners on mine, They are unmarked, sealed and subtly different from any tuners shown in Hans' book, but if I had to guess I'd guess they are Klusons.

[img:450:338]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid224/pc4926d5b1aaab8817ab0e64bc7770eff/ea9e7584.jpg[/img] [img:450:338]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid224/p2acf900d9c8bd81bb44c08bf78bde45c/ea9e7548.jpg[/img]
















[img:450:338]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid224/pf5853c25189f062ddcaf6287e79e4ff0/ea9e7356.jpg[/img] one comment: Looks like 20 years is just beyond the life expectancy of the Gold (Brass) plating on these tuners. They work great & unless I find out they are not original are gonna stay right where they are. All part of the vintage vibe.

It took me a little while to clean the light corrosion off, easy does it with "Never Dull" wading polish. [img:450:338]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid224/pe6bfbcfee831f448f87f176c19c424b9/ea9e7661.jpg[/img]

 

[guildzilla]

I have the same tuners on mine, Jeff, but in gold.

According to the May 1986 price list (before the change to the GF-60 designation), gold machines are listed as a $50 upgrade option.

Also, the store owner who sold me the F-44 had a rosewood F-46, and I specifically remember it had chrome tuners.

 

[Jeff]

Technically I think my tuners are (were) gold, a good percentage of the plating has worn off. Correct me if necessary, but I assume the term Gold when applied to tuners means color, not necessarily the element used to plate the tuners.

I suspect if it was Real Gold they would be so proud of it they would take care to identify it as 14k or 18k

Generally real Gold plating doesn't tarnish, still wears off, but doesn't tarnish.

 

[iamru02]

Thanks Jeff and guildzilla, pretty much tells me that the F series had at least similar tuners, if not, in fact the same.
I wasn't real clear when I described the recent D-66 (on E-bay) having "Gold" tuners. They were described and pictured as being round Grover tuners. Of course they may have been changed at some point. I havn't seen the advertised Gold tuners on the D-60. So I don't know if they were the rib back Grotoh or round Grover.
My tuners were seen and described by George Gruhn as "Grotoh rib back tuners made as copies of the of the original Klusion rib back tuners of the 1950's." They look like yours Jeff but mine are chrome, in color and as guildzilla points out, gold were an upgrade. Definately answers my question though, thanks.
[IMG:640:480]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/iamru02/Guild%20D-66%20Amber/GuildD-66017.jpg[/img] Tuners on my 85 D-66

 

[hansmoust]

Hello everybody,

That's a lot of questions. I usually don't mind giving the answers but to answer these questions completely would take up an entire page.

I've combined them all in a few short answers that will have to do for the moment:

I'm curious about your posting on the GF60. Do I understand you to say that the Gruhn designed GF60 and F46 are virtually the same guitar?

They should have been the same guitar but that’s not how they came out of the factory.

The guitars, advertised in '86 as Gruhn-designed Guilds, are unchanged (so far as I can see and read), including the slotted diamond inlays which distinguish these models. The info I'm sharing here comes from the Guild promotion copy for those two years.

Same answer as above. Guild promotion literature is usually not the best source for this kind of information.

The slotted diamond inlays were slightly fatter on the F-44, -46 et al, that on the successor GF-s.

That’s partly true. The slightly ‘fatter’ inlays were changed during the year 1987 so the first batches of GFs still had the ‘fatter’ inlays.

Does anyone know if there were changes to the tuners as well? A change that might help identify the era?

Yes, there were changes. This is the order in which they appeared:
The original Gruhn designed models (pre-1987) all had nickel Gotoh (Kluson Sealfast copy) ribbed tuners.
With the change to the new model designations in 1987 the nickel Gotoh Kluson copies were still in use untill they ran out and were changed for the same Gotohs in Gold. Eventually those were replaced by Grover RotoMatics in Gold.


Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[West R Lee]

Wow, what info. Hans, you keep this up and we won't need a Volume II! :wink:

West

 

[Graham]

Yes we will!

 

[iamru02]

Thanks Hans, I guess it's safe to assume that it's anybody's guess as to why the 86 D-66 on E-bay that I keep referring to had the Gold Grover tuners. Maybe a special order or a change out after the fact. The seller didn't state they were original, just said they were "like new"
Anyway, this info really helps as I look for my original quest for a Guild.

Hey Dave, you sure came to the right place to share Guild info. I didn't mean to wonder to far off the beaten path with the dred stuff. It's the only one I have knowledge of and I'm looking for an F or GF. All in the same family at least. Brothers, sisters and cousins...

 

[hansmoust]

Gold Grover tuners on D-66?

Thanks Hans, I guess it's safe to assume that it's anybody's guess as to why the 86 D-66 on E-bay that I keep referring to had the Gold Grover tuners. Maybe a special order or a change out after the fact. The seller didn't state they were original, just said they were "like new"

I guess he said 'like new' because that's probably what they were.
Take a closer look at the auction photo! Extra gold screws to fill up the old screw holes!

[img:800:601]http://www.guitarchives.nl/fotos/GroversD66_1.jpg[/img]


Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[john_kidder]

Something odd must be happening in my eBay search string - I don't see a D-66 anywhere. Can someone post the URL, and I'll try to figure out why I'm missing it?

Thanks

 

[GardMan]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Guild-D-66-D66-West ... 0081639443

I missed it to, at first. I usually search for "Guild guitar" in the title, but he didn't have guitar in the title. Beautiful guitar, but out of my range...

 

[john_kidder]

Got it, thanks. I had thought it was an active listing, hadn't looked at the completed auctions.

 

[iamru02]

sorry John, I was only using this one for an example, concerning the tuner question I had. ooooops
It did go quick and for mucho mula.....