Getting my '76 Guild D35 Repaired Has Been... Interesting

[InvisibleWren]

Well, what started out as me thinking I had a couple high frets has turned into... a long, arduous journey.

First, I found out the truss rod is not normal. It doesn't use an Allen wrench. Is this a normal Guild thing?

Secondly, it was going to get an entire re-fret after realizing the frets had been filed several times before and were really low. The tech (who I've never used, but heard good things about) tells me he had trouble getting the frets out as the slots were cut too tightly. He was afraid of chipping the fingerboard so he only pulled out the trouble frets and not all of them. Is this a real problem? Has anyone noticed this? Or is he just giving me the run around?

 

[Neal]

Two thoughts:

1. All of the Westerly Guilds that I have ever seen have a nut in the head stock truss rod slot that is turned to adjust the relief (to the left to add relief, and to the right to reduce it). This is true of both of my D-35's.

2. Depends on where the wear is. I have seen just the first five frets replaced and the rest left alone, assuming the player spends most of their time down near the nut and the upper frets that are left alone have limited wear. But if you are talking about new frets on, say, 1, 2 5, 8, 11 and old frets in between, I think you are going to have problems with intonation and fretting out.

 

[InvisibleWren]

He took the frets out, planed the fretboard then replaced it with the old frets from what I understand.

 

[davismanLV]

Why would he get the frets out only to replace with the same old fretwire? Seem like a waste of effort. Fret wire is cheap. Just put new frets on it at that point. I'm confused. But maybe someone will come along with a GOOD reason why he did this. :stupid:

 

[Christopher Cozad]

...I found out the truss rod is not normal...

It was normal for the era. When most players think of truss rods these days, they are typically thinking of dual action truss rods, self contained systems that can bend a rod forward or back (without even installing it into a guitar), and usually controlled with a hex key. These were not used in 1976 in Guild guitars. Instead, you (or your guitar tech) will find simple compression rods. These were little more than a steel rod, affixed to the neck block so the rod will not turn, and threaded at the headstock end. The rod is trapped into a slot in the neck. A 1/4" nut driver lets you tighten the nut on the threaded end of the rod which, in turn, attempts to straighten the steel rod whose endpoints are the neck block and the headstock ('the shortest distance between two points being a straight line'). Under ideal circumstances, this has the effect of introducing a slight back bow into the neck, compensating for string tension. Loosening that nut merely allows string tension to do it's thing, effectually curling the headstock up towards the body. Other builders explored two-way compression rods which acted more like todays dual action truss rods, but I have never encountered these in a Guild.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

Why would he get the frets out only to replace with the same old fretwire? Seem like a waste of effort. Fret wire is cheap. Just put new frets on it at that point. I'm confused. But maybe someone will come along with a GOOD reason why he did this. :stupid:

Hmm...*good* reason? That's a tough one. Are we positive the old frets were used?

Pulling frets out of old, dry fretboards, having them chip, and repairing the chips is all standard fare for a fret job. Someone *could* have hammered or pressed oversized frets into narrow slots, and/or someone *could* have really glued those frets in. Both scenarios can happen but it isn't a that big of a deal. Cutting new fretwire takes all of a few minutes. Leveling and dressing new frets can take a little longer but that's what a fret job is all about. I have tried and failed to remember when I ever took frets out of any guitar and did not replace them with new fretwire. Economics is the only thing I can come up with (and even that is a reach), where a dispute could arise with a customer over payment. It sounds like a line from a bad comedy sketch, 'Take your stinking guitar with your stinking old frets and leave, and never come back! But you have to pay for the strings!'

 

[adorshki]

He took the frets out, planed the fretboard then replaced it with the old frets from what I understand.

IF he planed the board he would have had to have removed all the frets, so the story's not making sense to me.
Planing the board is done to ensure it has a proper radius graduation all along the the length, I don't think you can only do "partial" plane, at least, not the way I understand it.
So that conflicts with only pulling some frets out, besides which, it'd be the first time I ever heard of someone being afraid of chipping the board, although I suppose it's possible, but that's what proper tools and experience are supposed to be for.
Maybe it's because I've had 2 complete re-frets on my D25 from 2 different sources and the concern never came up.
Of course your guitar's 20 years older than my D25, so, it's not fair to assume the same rules apply.
For balance, let's assume he may know some "tricks" like "partial planing" to avoid damaging the fretboard.
If his explanation does turn out to be legitimate, I'm sure I'd be glad my board wasn't chipped up but I would have expected to be offered the choice of how the job was done before it was finished, if the concern had come up.
I wear my frets out hard all the way up the board and I want the feel of the original factory height because I do a lot of trills/hammer-ons/ scales.
When they're too low that stuff gets muted out.
EDIT: I see a couple of other folks got in while I was still composing this, sorry for redundant thoughts except they may serve as confirmation of several folks agreeing about some things.

 

[InvisibleWren]

Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't like his story either. I guess I'll see what he did on Saturday when I drive the hour and a half to go retrieve it.

He says he got the buzz out. If he did and it plays well, I'll gladly pay him his rate (which is incredibly low).

 

[mutantmoose]

Any update?

 

[InvisibleWren]

He did a terrible job. He scuffed up the neck, it needs a new fretboard eventually now, etc. This guy was supposed to be legendarily good. He had amazing vintage guitars, new several of Guilds founders before they started it, etc. Quite a guy, but he ruined my prized guitar.

 

[fronobulax]

new several of Guilds founders before they started it, etc. Quite a guy, but he ruined my prized guitar.

Sorry about the instrument. Can you elaborate on the founders claim? My reading of that statement would be that he knew Al Dronge before 1952 ish but I sense that might not be what you were told. Thanks.

 

[adorshki]

He did a terrible job. He scuffed up the neck, it needs a new fretboard eventually now, etc. This guy was supposed to be legendarily good. He had amazing vintage guitars, new several of Guilds founders before they started it, etc. Quite a guy, but he ruined my prized guitar.

My sympathies as well.
I could guess that it's a painful subject you really didn't want to open up again.
I'm reminded of the guy who did the bone nut on my D25 during its first refret.
This guy was actually the Doobie Brothers guitar tech, Mark Brown, his private shop, no joke. He was a Fender authorized repair center.
When I got it back it took me a couple of days to figure out why I kept missing the G string doing scales. A close examination quickly revealed its slot wasn't centered correctly.
Had to take it back to get replaced at which point I find out Mark Brown didn't do the work, his apprentice did. Nothing about that was ever said, the entire consultation made it sound like he did all the work.
Beware of the use of the term "We'll do this".
It doesn't mean the same thing as "I'll do this".
As it turned out it still wasn't quite right but I never realized it until I took it to Keith Holland in Los Gatos for the second refret several years later (I just thought my technique was deteriorating from age, but when it came back from Keith it was like brand new again and the little flubs from the treble E being too close the fretboard edge didn't happen anymore)
When I hear these kinds of stories I wonder if maybe these guys who are supposed to be so good are actually closet snobs who think a lowly '70's Guild is beneath them?
Hard to conceive of another reason except maybe sheer incompetence stemming from senility?
Or maybe they think they'll boost the value of their guitars by damaging one they can get their claws on?
I think you oughta let us know who he is at least, in case other members want to "be advised".
No need to expand on what you've already said, keep it clinical.
I don't think what you've said so far is "legal slander" especially if you can prove it, but there's my 2 cents.
Having re-read your first post the only other thing I can think of is maybe there were justifiable reasons for what happened and he just didn't or couldn't explain it well.
But I'm skeptical, for the same reasons Christopher mentioned.
If he really did re-use old fret wire that's just ridiculous.
It defeats the whole point of the re-fret if they were already that low.