F40 vs D40

[Ghastly]

Hello Guild fanatics. My wife and I currently own a Taylor 424CE rosewood, which I like, but was definitely a middle ground compromise on our playing styles. I play more heavy rhythm and really dig in, she likes to play more fingerstyle and leads. The Taylor is just too... overtones? Is that the word? I've seen buskers and other live players who play folk/Irish session music/etc playing guilds and I am always impressed.

I really want something I can dig into, I play with a very heavy right hand. I played two early 70s D50s recently, and was impressed, but I am not super interested in getting into the money pit that vintage guitars can be. I played an f4NT that was lifeless, which I was surprised about.

My original thought was to go jumbo, usually they react to driving the top more, but the F50s and a Martin D18 I've played have responded well to a heavy hand too.

Currently considering:
F40
F40 traditional
D40
D40 traditional

Anyone have strong opinions? I will say that I dislike satin, but I also enjoy having an extra 800 dollars as well. Are there any other major differences between the trad and regular? For example, I really disliked the Martin D16 compared to the D18, will the regular F40 or D40 feel cheap like that?

Thanks!

 

[Aarfy]

Welcome! Good folks and lots of good info and knowledge around here.

I had this same discussion re Oxnard D40s here when I was trying to decide - there’s some good info in this thread:

Oxnard D40s

Hi all, first post. I’ve just bought and received an Oxnard (2020) D40e. Ive been longing for a guild ever since I picked up one 10 or so years ago and it was a weight, hearty acoustic. I’ve read the threads, but haven’t seen much on people who have Oxnard dreads. So far, I’m liking the sound...

letstalkguild.com

I ended up with the D40 (standard?) and absolutely love it. I know some prefer the traditional - but for me, I couldn’t be happier and I’m a heavy rhythm player too.

That said, I never have laid my hands on a traditional so can’t really comment there.

Im sure others more knowledgeable chime in soon.

Good luck!

 

[JohnW63]

This could turn into an interesting thread.

The obvious first answer is that the Ds will tend to have more bass than the Fs, simply due to the larger air volume and top surface area.

Here are a few demos:
D-40

F-40

D-40

F40


The F-40 didn't used to be a jumbo shape, so that is a surprise on this last video.

 

[Ghastly]

This could turn into an interesting thread.

The obvious first answer is that the Ds will tend to have more bass than the Fs, simply due to the larger air volume and top surface area.

Here are a few demos:
D-40

F-40

D-40

F40


The F-40 didn't used to be a jumbo shape, so that is a surprise on this last video.

The dread has a larger top surface area? I thought jumbo were larger?

 

[Ghastly]

Welcome! Good folks and lots of good info and knowledge around here.

I had this same discussion re Oxnard D40s here when I was trying to decide - there’s some good info in this thread:

Oxnard D40s

Hi all, first post. I’ve just bought and received an Oxnard (2020) D40e. Ive been longing for a guild ever since I picked up one 10 or so years ago and it was a weight, hearty acoustic. I’ve read the threads, but haven’t seen much on people who have Oxnard dreads. So far, I’m liking the sound...

letstalkguild.com

I ended up with the D40 (standard?) and absolutely love it. I know some prefer the traditional - but for me, I couldn’t be happier and I’m a heavy rhythm player too.

That said, I never have laid my hands on a traditional so can’t really comment there.

Im sure others more knowledgeable chime in soon.

Good luck!

It's super frustrating to not be able to find any in stores. I was even up in some stores in Ventura, 5 minutes from the factory, and they had none.

 

[kostask]

The dread has a larger top surface area? I thought jumbo were larger?

Depends on how big a jumbo. The really big ones (the 17" ones, like the F50/F50R) probably have a larger active surface area, but dreads have more active surface area than the smaller jumbos (16", like the F40s). The tighter waist of a jumbos tend to reduce the active surface area of a Jumbo to the area below the waist roughly, whereas the wider waist of a dread allows the active surface area to extend further up. This is a gross oversimplification, as the bracing, actual position of the bridge relative to the waist, and a few other factors enter into it.

End result is that it really does depend, and it can very well end up that a dread usually has more active surface area than a jumbo, unless the jumbo is significantly larger.

Just for clarity, active surface area is the part of the soundboard that is actually vibrating to make sound. The entire soundboard DOES NOT generate sound. The part around the top shoulders of the guitar, extending downwards towards the sound hole is relatively "dead" for all intents and purposes. If you continue to go downwards towards the soundhole, the soundboard becomes more and more active. As you approach the sides, it also gets more "dead", even in the middle of the soundboard.

 

[Heath]

Reading a GAL magazine, I came across this interesting article about vibration and strings. (I’d need to find the right magazine to get the whole article as I forget which one it was. I’ll take a look)

 

[chazmo]

FYI, just for clarity, Oxnard's current F-40 models are 17" lower bout (Guild jumbo size). That was not true of the F-40 model of the past.

 

[richardp69]

I will say that IMHO, the Oxnard F 40 has one of the largest voices/huge projection of any Guild I've ever owned. I have the F 40T E and also a D 40T Deluxe and both are fine guitars. I go through a lot of guitars but both of these are keepers I would say.

 

[PaulyPaul]

I have a new F40 Traditional, had it a week. It's huge and loud. I've not played a lot of other Guilds to compare it to but it's as loud as my Martin DM, which is about the loudest guitar at any open mic I play, that includes Taylors and a Martin D35.
But whereas the Martin is more bass focused, the F40 is louder across the range and a little sweeter overall.

 

[adorshki]

Welcome aboard Ghastly!! To me the primary construction difference between the current Standards and the Traditionals is that the Traditionals still use the glued-in dovetail neck joint, the Standards use a mortise-and-tenon "bolt on" system.

There's been mild debate about whether or not one's better than the other, but suspect it would take a pretty sophisticated ear to really hear a difference between versions of the same model.

 

[Aarfy]

Aesthetics too:
As mentioned gloss vs satin, but also the traditional has a Chesterfield on the headstock, if that’s anything you care about. There may be other ‘touches’ on the traditional that don’t appear on the D40 - but I have guitars with all the binding and inlays etc, for me, it’s sound, not looks - unless it’s hideous

 

[adorshki]

Aesthetics too:
As mentioned gloss vs satin, but also the traditional has a Chesterfield on the headstock, if that’s anything you care about. There may be other ‘touches’ on the traditional that don’t appear on the D40 - but I have guitars with all the binding and inlays etc, for me, it’s sound, not looks - unless it’s hideous

You "kick-started" me.

I thought there was another little construction detail I was forgetting, before the finish and detail items, it's the bracing:
For the Traditional: "Using a high-grade solid Sitka spruce top...Guild adds scalloped Adirondack braces for power, nuance and responsiveness."
(From their website, italics added by me for emphasis)

 

[Aarfy]

I feel like we have had this conversation
before @adorshki

 

[Tom O]

The F-40 would be more comfortable if you play sitting down a lot. Remember Richie Havens used to dig into his D-40. My CV-1 sounds good (F-47 body). Both should be fine. Don't have any Oxfords so I will defer to Richardp69.

 

[Coop47]

For example, I really disliked the Martin D16 compared to the D18, will the regular F40 or D40 feel cheap like that?

The satin finish doesn't feel cheap, but it doesn't feel like a traditional Guild either. I have an F40 Std that is a killer guitar sound-wise, but won't win any beauty contest. It has gotten a lot of play since it arrived. I also have a D40 Traditional that has a stunning burst and immediately became my favorite 'hog Dread.

If you really disliked the D16 because of the aesthetics, I'd avoid the Std. Both of this are keepers, as Richard said. You can spend a long time compromising or a long time being really happy with your choice.

 

[PaulyPaul]

When I bought my F-40 Traditional, I had the option of the standard F-40E instead. Aside from the fact I don't like the electronics in the F-40E, the satin finish was another deciding factor. My Martin DM is a satin finish and, although I regard it as a clean look when new, it's gone shiny everywhere I touch the top regularly when playing.
I have a top of the range Kala ukulele with satin acacia top. I've hardly played it at all really and want to sell it, but it's shiny where the scratchplate would be on a guitar, because you strum uke with your fingers. In consequence I'll take a significant hit on price when selling it.

 

[adorshki]

The F-40 would be more comfortable if you play sitting down a lot.

"Word". Why my F65ce (what I call the "real" F40 body, 16" lower bout jumbo body, as was the 'hog-bodied F47) became my go-to for playing comfort.

Remember Richie Havens used to dig into his D-40.

And why my 2nd dreadnought was a Havens signature D40.

My CV-1 sounds good (F-47 body).

Speaking of F47's, how about an F47 and a D40, together? It's often overlooked that an F47 was the other Guild that opened Woodstock:

Don't have any Oxfords so I will defer to Richardp69.

NO Oxfords?
Good lord, man, at least tell us you have a pair of Penny Loafers, then!

I feel like we have had this conversation
before @adorshki

Yeah but that was then, this is now. I did say the same things, though, right?

 

[Br1ck]

A well taken care of old guitar is no more a money pit than anything else. The main expense people fear is a neck reset. Buy an older guitar accordingly. IMHO, a guitar not worth fixing is a guitar you shouldn't own. I bought my D 35 cheap, because it needed work. If you equate market worth with value, then the $1400 total I have in it was a poor choice. But I have no doubt as to the soundness of the guitar, as I don't doubt any guitar I'd buy from the two shops I frequent. I'm six years in and no more afraid of it falling apart than my 07 Martin D 35.

Compare the $1100 I spent with a luthier with driving that new guitar off the lot. I had a NOS bridge I got from Hans Moust fitted, along with a neck reset, new frets, nut and saddle and a clear lacquer applied to the bare wood neck someone sanded off. I can not begin to explain what 52 year old wood sounds like, or the 57 year old wood of my 65 Texan. To me it is something that kicks in around 20 years, really matures at 30, and just gets better. As good as new guitars are, and that is very good indeed, they don't have age. Yeah, they are trying but no cigar.

So buying a beat D 18 from the seventies for around $1200, and spending a grand with someone like Bryan Kimsey, will get you something special, and have the value you actually put into it, if that matters to you. Now I know there are a lot of people who just like new, and that is fine, but don't do it because of the money pit notion. I have yet to play any $1400 guitar I'd rather have than my D 35, or $3400 guitar I'd rather have than my 65 Texan. Heaven help me if I ever walk into a shop and see a D 55 from the when they were a special order era. I'd be toast.

 

[JohnW63]

"That was not true of the F-40 model of the past "

Until I looked at the videos, I figured the F-40 was the same size as my F-47R , which I would not call a jumbo. It's smaller than a dread, but just about as deep. I now know Oxnard has put the model name on a jumbo shape.