F212: Pin Bridge Gone, Tailpiece ?

[capnjuan]

This eBay F212 has had its bridge replaced and a tailpiece installed: eBay auction link F212 w/ tailpiece The seller sez:

"THE ADDITION OF THE TAILPIECE INCREASED THE SCALE LENTGH AND ENABLED THE ABILITY TO TUNE DOWN TO BARITONE , WITHOUT LOSS OF THE HIGH END OR ANY BOTTOMING OUT . IT ALSO ALLOWS FOR AN EXTREMELY LOW ACTION WITHOUT STRING BUZZ"

This is sales jive, no? If not, then why don't more modern guitars have tailpieces and not pin bridges? Along with some discussion a few months ago about bridge pins and saddles, there was some talk about break angle the gist of which was the sharper the better; wouldn't this config reduce break angle? See also closeup pic of junction of soundhole and fretboard; evidence of a seismic event? Any chance the tailpiece serves to moderate the stress of the neck heel at the body? cj

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[GardMan]

Saw that auction, and have been asking myself exactly the same question... with re: to this instrument, but also acoustic archtops that traditionally use a tail piece to anchor the strings... Someone with more knowledge of construction and acoustics than I care to share their wisdom? Thx, Dave

 

[dklsplace]

Sorry...that's crap. The "hand carved" oversized bridge replacement is probably hiding some damage. Looks like the top was beginning to cave at the neck & the bridge was likely bellying. The addition of the tail piece removed the bellying issue & lessoned the tension issues, but that has nothing to do with scale length. Scale length has to do with the distance between the nut & saddle. That distance is the basis for the formula for cutting the fret slots in the finger board. Move the saddle to "change the scale length" & your intonation will go to heckle.

 

[capnjuan]

Sorry...that's crap....Move the saddle to "change the scale length" & your intonation will go to heckle.

Don't want it to go there ... Yes, got the impression the function of the tailpiece was to try to keep the body from caving in (further) at the neck; the rest of it sounded like bologna... Assuming the neck is ramming the body; is that a fatal condition or an expensive fix?

 

[dklsplace]

Assuming the neck is ramming the body; is that a fatal condition or an expensive fix?

If your dog had heart worms & the treatment was going to cost $2k, would you spring for it, or put the dog down? :lol:

Fixable, yes...expensive, yes.

 

[bluegrass jubilee]

I back Don on this one....the only way that guitar could function as a baritone is if you could actually manually move the saddle position to yield a longer scale length.

That's not even the tailpiece that Guild would have used.

The auctioneer is either severly misinformed, or trying to pull a fast one.

 

[GardMan]

I gathered that the tailpiece and bridge on this instrument were bandaids, trying to fix/hide problems with this instrument... and didn't buy the longer scale claim (they would have to move all the frets). My question... how is the importance of break-angle across the bridge (on pin guitars) reconciled with the (much smaller?) break angle I expect you would have on a guitar with a tailpiece? Dave

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

Maybe the dude meant that he could tune down a step without buzzing :mrgreen:

That one is probably a wall decoration.

Speaking of decoration: I've never seen an F212 with anything other than a plain rosewood fretboard, side dots only....

Oh, Hans :?:

 

[dklsplace]

.. how is the importance of break-angle across the bridge (on pin guitars) reconciled with the (much smaller?) break angle I expect you would have on a guitar with a tailpiece?

Maybe the dude meant that he could tune down a step without buzzing

Addressing both of these; I'm betting the "new" bridge is also much higher than the original would have been. Taking a closer look at the sound hole/fretboard close up, it would seem that the collapse that may have been taking place has been wedged up & it actually appears to be raised (which would increase the neck angle).

Maybe being able to tune it down a step is necessary cause the strings were too high to play easily at pitch?

Either way, I wouldn't touch it myself.

Quick edit. Yes, pictures can play tricks, but look at the angle of the neck in relation to the body in this shot. That's pretty serious on an acoustic.

 

[Guildmark]

Speaking of decoration: I've never seen an F212 with anything other than a plain rosewood fretboard, side dots only....

I think you're right. Certainly the position markers on this one are after market, and they look more like stickers to me.

 

[capnjuan]

The little snow flakey thingie doesn't look like it's square to the centerline of the fretboard.

 

[bluegrass jubilee]

yes, the top dots are highly suspect as well

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

When the probably deliberately blurry photos are viewed with a magnifyer......

It appears that there's filler around the "inlays".

Maybe a very sloppy amateur inlay job.

Yes the snowflake is off-axis.....way off.

 

[12 string]

I would pass on this one, too.

With a tailpiece set-up, the total length of the string from anchor point to anchor point is increased. even though the fret scale does not change. Does this mean that any given string must be tuned to a higher level of tension to acheive the same pitch? Does this mean that the same level of tension would give a lower pitch? Maybe this is what the seller is getting at with the "baritone" thing.

That being said, it still doesn't pass the smell test.