Ebay - CO-2 blems, seconds...what's up?

[jgwoods]

I get a listing each day of new listings for Guild acoustic guitars. Every day there's 2-3 of the CO-2 model, they look new, but buried in the description is a note that they are factory seconds, blems, what have you, that are all fixed up like new now and ready to go- except the price is too high and there is no warranty from Guild and you just never know if the only thing wrong was some mark on the finish like the seller says- or if they just don't build them right with the new "plastic" neck block and bolt on neck.

And, you almost never see a new Guild CO-2 with full factory warranty. One place sells them for a good price in Brooklyn, no one else ever seems to sell anything but 2nds/blems.

Frankly it's a drag on Guilds reputation. I don't see any Martin or Gibson blems for sale, and certainly not 2-3 a day. They belong in the fireplace, heating the house, not on ebay.

Too bad. I like the design of the CO-2- adi top, 'hog back and sides, 1 3/4" neck, that's exactly what I am looking for but unless they stop marketing 75% of them as blems I ain't buying.

 

[guildzilla]

It's more than just the CO 2 models. I started this thread awhile back...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12391

 

[paganskins]

I've recently bought a CV1 stamped as used from ebay, structurally perfect and I can't find a cosmetic blem on it anywhere. Is it possible these are discontinued models as I understand production of the contemporary line has been suspended due to the move?

 

[jgwoods]

There's just too many problems with this way of selling for me to consider buying. I can see Guild building the guitar, then during quality inspection they find- gee it's a dud, doesn't really sound as good as we hoped, - the finish is too thick, or the braces were carved wrong, or the neck angle is off a little bit, or it's just that the wood looked good but sounds lousy...so, they mark it used and sell it....sell lots of them, pretty much filling the world with second rate Guilds until everyone forms an opinion of the brand based on the guitars Guild knows aren't good enough to represent the name on the headstock. I know, it's not really that bad, but for the Contemporary series it seems to be.
Whatever guitar you buy like this - with no warranty from Guild- its a crapshoot- especially when you don't see anything wrong, but even when there's an obvious repair, how do you know that guitar is all that it should be? Unless you have - can find- one of the "good" ones, ones that Guild stands by, to make a comparison you can't tell what you've got. And they still charge too much for them.

 

[dreadnut]

Used to be, when Gibsons were made in Kalamazoo, a "2nd" would never get out of the factory (unless it was commandeered by an employee ). This helped insure that everything in the sales pipeline was top notch. How things have changed. Now, Gibsons that should have been rejected at the factory are being sent out and sold for full price. No? Go take a close look at some recent Gibson acoustics and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Even though I don't think the Guild 2nds are a smart way to market the brand, at least I give FMIC credit for clearly identifying them as "2nds".

 

[jgwoods]

Used to be, when Gibsons were made in Kalamazoo, a "2nd" would never get out of the factory (unless it was commandeered by an employee ). This helped insure that everything in the sales pipeline was top notch. How things have changed. Now, Gibsons that should have been rejected at the factory are being sent out and sold for full price. No? Go take a close look at some recent Gibson acoustics and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Even though I don't think the Guild 2nds are a smart way to market the brand, at least I give FMIC credit for clearly identifying them as "2nds".

Good point.
I have a very nice Gibson, but the one that preceded this was messed up from the factory and I ended up selling it for a loss. It looked good, other than a poorly cut nut, but it was too heavily braced( several luthiers opinions) and never had good tone- last guitar I ever buy without playing it first.

 

[JimB1]

Martin doesn't do seconds. If it doesn't pass muster at the end of the line, it goes though a bandsaw from what I saw at the factory...
-Jim

 

[West R Lee]

I don't care for the practice myself.....to me, fix them and put a factory warrenty on them, burn them, or don't sell them. Fact is though, from all that I know from people who have bought seconds, they can't find the blemish. I've never owned one, but I do wonder if it's possible that their standards are so high, most would pass for 100% at another factory? Just for the sake of discussion.

Graham asked me sometime back if I would buy a second in a model I really wanted? If I really wanted it, and it saved me $500 or $600, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

West

 

[geoguy]

I purchased a F-412 (maple 12 string) a few months ago, with "used" stamped in the headstock. It appeared to have once been in a store (hang tags were inside the case's storage cubby). The repair was a roughly one-inch section of neck binding, on the treble side, that allegedly came loose & needed to be re-glued.

Only evidence of that repair now is a very subtle irregularity in the finished surface between the nut & first fret, on the treble side. Only discernible if I told you where to look. I could rub it out, but it will probably get smoothed down as I play anyways. I believe that I'm the first actual owner of this beautiful guitar; it still has the protective plastic on the pickguard.

Oh, & the price I paid was $1,600 less than the wet-dream of a retail price listed on the hang tag . . . not a bad deal, imo.

- Mark

 

[jgwoods]

Another thing to note- all of the blems and seconds flooding ebay right now come from Tacoma. It looks to me like they didn't have a happy ending there...

 

[guitarslinger]

I know that in years past Fender has counted on Guitar Center buying all of their unsold product at the end of the year to keep their business looking healthy on the books even though the items were deeply discounted. I've been told that the practice of marking seconds is sometimes an effort to move unsold merchandise at a deep discount in large numbers. Anybody else here that? But, you are right. It denigrates the marquis.

 

[guildzilla]

It's probably impossible to figure out what's up on this subject. Much easier to speculate.

With the Corona seconds, it seemed to me that the initial wave of 2002 acoustics sold as blems all had finish checking on the tops. But the later wave was tougher to figure because finish checking wasn't an characteristic issue with these guitars. On the two I previously had, I couldn't find a cosmetic flaw. Noticing the difference, I wondered if all of the last run of Guild acoustics in the pipeline at Corona were declared blems at some point after the decision was made to move production to Tacoma.

So I've been watching and wondering if a similar pattern might develop with the Tacoma Guilds, as the current production transition proceeds. If so, it will not help the new Connecticut Guilds. At the very least, it undermines the price structure and adversely affects their dealers.

 

[wooglins]

It is not just Guilds that are flooding ebay as 2nds, used, etc. The same sellers are also selling Takamine, Alvarez, Epiphone, Ibanex, Fender, Ovation, Guild, Schecter, Sammick, Yamaha.

There are several of these sellers that are located in the Nashville area. They buy the guitars from one seller that does the repair/certification. It stinks for all the brands they sell, especially if you want to sell one of the guitars they sell on ebay.

Here is a link to one of the sellers located in Nashville area.

http://stores.ebay.com/lnfguitars

The stock disclaimer for this sellers guitars:


"All our guitars come from the factory to an authorized refurbishing center, for any number of reasons, mostly due to small cosmetic issues. Any issues are expertly repaired by a large team of professional certified luthiers or so small they are simply left alone. Our guitars have no resulting structural issues, look awesome, and play beautifully. Due to contracts between the original manufacturer and refurbishing center, they have a used stamp on the back of the headstock in between the tuners and wear a new serial number from the refurb factory, as is industry standard on all refurbished items (and anybody selling these guitars on ebay - just ask them), to protect the manufacturer and buyer from fraudulent warranty claims. This is a great chance to own the guitar that you have always wanted at a fraction of the retail cost. This is a no risk transaction with our awesome return policy."