Difference between Guild GF30 and Guild JF30

[Chordwainer]

Hi everyone, brand new member here, joined in order to learn more about the GF30 guitars so this thread caught my eye.

One of my musical heroes, James McMurtry, has played one his entire career, and it has a delicious tone that I've not heard on any other guitar, as dadroadie the OP mentioned. To be clear, JM has a soundhole pickup that he uses when playing live, but the twice-weekly livestreams he's been doing during the pandemic demonstrate that it's not the pickup that give it that sound, since those are done with just an RE-20 condenser and no amps.

I have a Martin dread 6 and 12, plus a custom grand concert 6 made by the Pimentel family in Albuquerque NM (which I keep strung Nashville style), and the midrange-palooza that the GF30 features is a sound I'm really looking to add to my collection. It just sings (and JM's unorthodox virtuosity really brings it out). And btw I have no qualms about laminated construction.

A genuine GF30 is rare as hen's teeth on the used market (ditto for most of the GF series near as I can tell), and having read this thread I can understand why: made for only a handful of years. Thus my question is: is there a more readily-available model that captures the kind of tone the GFs have? I'm open to new as well as used. I'll be test-driving as best I can through mailorder (most places have very reasonable return policies)-- my wife and I have to remain isolated until we get vaccinated (older higher-risk group). But I'd like to narrow the parameters as best I can so I don't have to order ten guitars! Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[HeyMikey]

Hi everyone, brand new member here, joined in order to learn more about the GF30 guitars so this thread caught my eye.

One of my musical heroes, James McMurtry, has played one his entire career, and it has a delicious tone that I've not heard on any other guitar, as dadroadie the OP mentioned. To be clear, JM has a soundhole pickup that he uses when playing live, but the twice-weekly livestreams he's been doing during the pandemic demonstrate that it's not the pickup that give it that sound, since those are done with just an RE-20 condenser and no amps.

I have a Martin dread 6 and 12, plus a custom grand concert 6 made by the Pimentel family in Albuquerque NM (which I keep strung Nashville style), and the midrange-palooza that the GF30 features is a sound I'm really looking to add to my collection. It just sings (and JM's unorthodox virtuosity really brings it out). And btw I have no qualms about laminated construction.

A genuine GF30 is rare as hen's teeth on the used market (ditto for most of the GF series near as I can tell), and having read this thread I can understand why: made for only a handful of years. Thus my question is: is there a more readily-available model that captures the kind of tone the GFs have? I'm open to new as well as used. I'll be test-driving as best I can through mailorder (most places have very reasonable return policies)-- my wife and I have to remain isolated until we get vaccinated (older higher-risk group). But I'd like to narrow the parameters as best I can so I don't have to order ten guitars! Thanks in advance for any advice.

Welcome Chordwainer. I see GF30s come up a few times a year, and prices seem to be fairly reasonable. Create some searches and be patient.

 

[Chordwainer]

Welcome Chordwainer. I see GF30s come up a few times a year, and prices seem to be fairly reasonable. Create some searches and be patient.

Thanks! Could you elaborate a bit on creating some searches? I belong to Reverb and have set one up there, but am not very familiar with where else one might want to do that (old dog learning new tricks here).

 

[HeyMikey]

You can get on mailing lists or watch some of the online sellers but Reverb and eBay are your best bet.

 

[wileypickett]

Having owned (or still owning) dozens of Guild models, including a GF30, the closest parallel sound-wise I can think of (at least to my ears) is the GV70.

This probably doesn’t help you much, as GV70s are pretty hard to find as well!

 

[mavuser]

Hi everyone, brand new member here, joined in order to learn more about the GF30 guitars so this thread caught my eye.

One of my musical heroes, James McMurtry, has played one his entire career, and it has a delicious tone that I've not heard on any other guitar, as dadroadie the OP mentioned. To be clear, JM has a soundhole pickup that he uses when playing live, but the twice-weekly livestreams he's been doing during the pandemic demonstrate that it's not the pickup that give it that sound, since those are done with just an RE-20 condenser and no amps.

I have a Martin dread 6 and 12, plus a custom grand concert 6 made by the Pimentel family in Albuquerque NM (which I keep strung Nashville style), and the midrange-palooza that the GF30 features is a sound I'm really looking to add to my collection. It just sings (and JM's unorthodox virtuosity really brings it out). And btw I have no qualms about laminated construction.

A genuine GF30 is rare as hen's teeth on the used market (ditto for most of the GF series near as I can tell), and having read this thread I can understand why: made for only a handful of years. Thus my question is: is there a more readily-available model that captures the kind of tone the GFs have? I'm open to new as well as used. I'll be test-driving as best I can through mailorder (most places have very reasonable return policies)-- my wife and I have to remain isolated until we get vaccinated (older higher-risk group). But I'd like to narrow the parameters as best I can so I don't have to order ten guitars! Thanks in advance for any advice.

A Guild F-40 from the 70s/80s is very, very similar to the GF-30. there are some cosmetic differences (headstock shape, fretboard inlays, possibly fretboard wood ebony vs. rosewood) but the tone and feel should be as close to a GF-30 as even a second GF-30 would be to the first GF-30...

A GF-30 is not so impossible to find, however. a Westerly F-40 also does not come up every day, but they are out there. where are u located, geographically?

also just for clarification there is a brand new/current Guild F-40 from Oxnard Guild factory, which is different, and I know nothing about. so i'm not referring to those!

 

[Chordwainer]

GV70s are pretty hard to find as well!

You're not kidding!

 

[Chordwainer]

A Guild F-40 from the 70s/80s is very, very similar to the GF-30. there are some cosmetic differences (headstock shape, fretboard inlays, possibly fretboard wood ebony vs. rosewood) but the tone and feel should be as close to a GF-30 as even a second GF-30 would be to the first GF-30...

Thanks! I'll look into those.

A GF-30 is not so impossible to find, however. a Westerly F-40 also does not come up every day, but they are out there. where are u located, geographically?

I'm in the northern Virginia 'burbs of Washington, DC. Amazingly, there are next to no decent shops around, just a few Guitar Centers. But I wouldn't be going anywhere in person these days.

 

[HeyMikey]

Having owned (or still owning) dozens of Guild models, including a GF30, the closest parallel sound-wise I can think of (at least to my ears) is the GV70.

This probably doesn’t help you much, as GV70s are pretty hard to find as well!

Glenn, I’m surprised you think that with the GF30 being arched laminated maple and the GV70 being flat solid rosewood. If that is true then a GF30 at around $1000 +- is an absolute steal and well worth the wait.

 

[adorshki]

I just bought a brand new OM-240e with an arch-back for $400, and I agree that it's a signature model for them oh, and it's not a bad thing, but that seems really pricey for a guitar that's not solid wood.

A belated welcome aboard, Aecon13.

Those "OM" models are MIC instruments and aren't comparable to a Westerly-built instrument, many "little details" of material quality and workmanship aren't up to the standards of US-builts.

Also the labor costs are quite a it lower. But those MIC guitars are basically "Assembly line guitars" whereas US Guilds always had a high level of individual hand working.

They do have great value in their rice range, but more than a few folks here have come to Guild through those instruments and then moved up to the US-builts after finally being able to compare.

As previously noted, arched laminated backs are a signature Guild technique since the first F50 flagship model and the F40 too.
A back's primary role is to reflect, and it's the outer layers of lamination which provide the the tone color, maple and mahogany being the most popular woods.

GuIild knew that 99% of a guitar's tone is created by the top, and they ALWAYS used solid tops of a consistently high grade:

Unfortunately, I'm a pretty small stature. Dreads and regular size Jumbo's (with a 17" lower bout) are just too uncomfortable for me. I really need something that's more if a OM//Jumbo combo, this way I can get the big sound, in a more comfortable body. I am looking for something that is all solid wood.

Right now, I have the F-47 and F-40 Valencia as my 2 primary options (both have 16" lower bouts). I thought these GF's would work too, but not if they are not all solid woods.

Do you know of any other Guild models that would fit into my criteria?

In fact the 16" jumbo was one of Guild's most enduring platforms and there are many variations of it.

I can relate because my "go-to" guitar for comfort is my own F65ce which is also a 16" jumbo (with an arched maple back)

Were you aware the F40 Valencia also has a laminated arched back?
If I understand correctly, I see you've been able to identify a couple of potential models you want to try.

Arched backs enhance volume and sustain especially of overtones, if you're looking for volume you should be considering arched backs.

If for some reason you still can't accept a laminated back, then all you have to do is restrict your consideration to flat-backed models which were always solid woods, like the F47 or the GF40.

F47's are a good start for overall availability, those were always flat (solid) backed and have been made with all 3 tonewoods ('hog, maple, and rosewood)

Good luck on the hunt, and don't be afraid to check with us if you want to be sure of the specs of a piece you're considering. Sometimes sellers don't know what they've got, but basically, if it's a flat back it's solid.

[EDIT: I posted before reading all threads, and saw your comment:
"I've been in search of a Guild guitar that fills a particular criteria for a bit now, and I simply realize that these GF's don't fit the bill. It's not because I have an issue with arch-backs, but simply because I already have an arch back and I would like an all wood body."

Ok, I get that. Heck, I've got an arched and a flatback dread myself, in the D25 and D40. Funny thing, based on the reputation, I expected the D40 to be even louder than the (archbacked) D25, but it wasn't. It also needed a few years to open up and still isn't as loud at the absolute limits, but damn close.

BUT: the '25 can get a bit muddy when driven hard due to all the extra overtone sustain, the '40 doesn't, and records the cleanest as a result, I think. The sound is a bit more articulate, too. I finally understood what folks meant by "punchy" when I started being able to hear thet difference between th flta and solid backs of basically identical build formulas ('hog body/sitka-topped dreadnought)

I still think you misunderstood our comments regarding the GF series. This is what I re-posted before about what Hans said before: "The GF-40 was the lowest in the range with a flat mahogany braced back. " means that the GF-40, GF-50 and GF-60 are all solid wood flat back guitars...So a GF-40 for instance would fit your requirement list of 16", mahogany with spruce top and flat back.

Guild GF-40 1987 | Reverb

Solid Sitka Spruce TopSolid Mahogany Back & SidesRosewood Fingerboard & BridgeL.R. Baggs Pickup Installed1 11/16" Nut Width25 7/16" Scale LengthNew Access Gig Bag Included

reverb.com

Ralf

I'm a little confused since typically the arched backs were more cost-effective from a labor standpoint if nothing else, and I see the GF25 with an arched back, and no chesterfield to boot, normally the sign of an entry-level instrument.

Perhaps the GF25 wasn't offered at the time Hans was referring to?

 

[adorshki]

I still think you misunderstood our comments regarding the GF series. This is what I re-posted before about what Hans said before: "The GF-40 was the lowest in the range with a flat mahogany braced back. " means that the GF-40, GF-50 and GF-60 are all solid wood flat back guitars...So a GF-40 for instance would fit your requirement list of 16", mahogany with spruce top and flat back.

Guild GF-40 1987 | Reverb

Solid Sitka Spruce TopSolid Mahogany Back & SidesRosewood Fingerboard & BridgeL.R. Baggs Pickup Installed1 11/16" Nut Width25 7/16" Scale LengthNew Access Gig Bag Included

reverb.com

Ralf

I'm a little confused since typically the arched backs were more cost-effective from a labor standpoint if nothing else, ad I see the GF25 with an arched back, and no chesterfield to boot, normally the sign of an entry-level instrument.

Perhaps the GF25 wasn't offered at the time Hans was referring to?

 

[SFIV1967]

@adorshki have a look at post #10!

Ralf

 

[fronobulax]

I'm in the northern Virginia 'burbs of Washington, DC. Amazingly, there are next to no decent shops around, just a few Guitar Centers. But I wouldn't be going anywhere in person these days.

It depends upon how you define "around". When I lived there I would definitely say "there were no decent shops around" but what I really meant was I was unwilling to cross the Potomac or the Beltway or drive more than 10 miles to get to the decent shops

My goto shop was Action Music in downtown Falls Church. If I try hard enough I could remember some of the other interesting shops.

 

[adorshki]

@adorshki have a look at post #10!

Ralf

I did.
Maybe I misinterpreted what Hans mean by "lowest in the range", which I took to mean "price-wise".

Maybe he meant "with a flat 'hog back?"

 

[SFIV1967]

Maybe he meant "with a flat 'hog back?"

Exactly! The OP in that other threads wrote initially: "..the GF25 was the only model in the line with a mahogany arched back. " and Hans corrected this saying that also the GF-30 had an arched back.

Ralf

 

[adorshki]

also just for clarification there is a brand new/current Guild F-40 from Oxnard Guild factory, which is different, and I know nothing about. so i'm not referring to those!

Oxnard's F-40 is a 17" jumbo body. Grrrrrrrr.........

 

[Chordwainer]

My goto shop was Action Music in downtown Falls Church.

That's the best one in the area for sure, at least judging by the website, but I hadn't gotten around to visiting after moving here in June of '19 by the time the pandemic set in. They have only four Guilds in stock at the moment if I'm reading things correctly, and not in models I'm interested in. Worth keeping an eye on for sure.

And I hear you, "around" for me is NoVA, DC, and southern MD, but it'd have to be something really good to get me to drive over to MD from here...

 

[wileypickett]

Glenn, I’m surprised you think that with the GF30 being arched laminated maple and the GV70 being flat solid rosewood. If that is true then a GF30 at around $1000 +- is an absolute steal and well worth the wait.

I almost didn't post that comment because it seems so counter-intuitive given the builds involved, and because I knew people here would certainly be skeptical.

Now, to be clear (and to partially cover my butt) it has been a while since I sold my GF30 -- so even I'm skeptical! But this is what I remember thinking at the time.

(BTW, I still have the GV70, but only for as long as the weather's cold. Once things warm up, it'll be en route to its new owner in Caifornia!)

 

[fronobulax]

That's the best one in the area for sure, at least judging by the website, but I hadn't gotten around to visiting after moving here in June of '19 by the time the pandemic set in. They have only four Guilds in stock at the moment if I'm reading things correctly, and not in models I'm interested in. Worth keeping an eye on for sure.

And I hear you, "around" for me is NoVA, DC, and southern MD, but it'd have to be something really good to get me to drive over to MD from here...

The Guilds in this house that were purchased new in the 21st Century came from Action. I look forward to my next visit to NoVA at a time when I can just browse and visit. If I had something specific I wanted and was ready to buy in the next few weeks, I'd make an appointment and see if they could get it or talk me into something they could get instead

 

[HeyMikey]

... (BTW, I still have the GV70, but only for as long as the weather's cold. Once things warm up, it'll be en route to its new owner in Caifornia!)

Wait, what ?! Sold your coveted GV70?