Dearmonds in an Aristocrat

[guitarlover]

Quote from a member (JP) in another topic : " I also like to play an Aristocrat with original Dearmonds and a Bigsby "

This made me think : Would it be possible in an reissue Aristocrat M 75 to swap the Franz pick ups with Dearmond like pickups. ( It's not that I don't like the Franz pickups , on the contrary, but I just like the Aristicrat guitars so much and this would a good excuse to add another one to my collection ;-).

At a first glance the size and mounting "system" of the pickups seem to be different. So drilling seems necessary and I wonder what this would do with the bracing etc.

So would it be possible or am I talking nonsense ...

 

[Mapleman54]

Hello Guitarlover. In Hans Moust’s book (page 57) he mentions the white bobbin Dearmond variant on the early versions of the M75, and then has a great side-by-side pic (on page 71) showing the later Bluesbird variant with the Dearmonds and an after-market Bigsby. He mentions that these versions had specially machined wider mounting rings to cover up the holes routed for the wider Franz pickups, and you can see wider mounting rings in thes pics.
The pic enclosed is an original with white face Dearmonds, and a modern reissue with spec you are thinking about, with gold-foil Dearmonds, so clearly it can be done!
I have a 57 original single pickup variant (pictured) and recently had the aftermarket humbucker out thinking I might replace it with a Guild HB1, but I found that the relatively low string clearance on the guitar combined with the shallow body and acoustic struts inside wouldn’t allow the installation without substantial modification. (So didn’t touch it!) So I would suggest that string clearance might be an issue for any pickup change on an M75.
I’m sure that all friends on the LTG site will agree that a positive solution is to have two Aristocrats, being even better than one!

 

[Mapleman54]

Here’s the pic from Hans’ book p71 (just in case you don’t have it) You can see the wide mounting ring on the Dearmond-equipped guitar

 

[guitarlover]

Thank you for your answer and the gorgeous pictures. I do not have the book Guild book , so thanks.

By the way I already have 3 (Korean built reissue) aristocrats : Goldtop , black one with guildsby added and a black one with wooden bridge added and flatwound strings on it.
But I like the sunburst version also ;-)

 

[SFIV1967]

Here’s the pic from Hans’ book p71 (just in case you don’t have it) You can see the wide mounting ring on the Dearmond-equipped guitar

Also Hans showed good pictures of two possibilities here:

Need some HELP with DeArmond Pickups

I just pulled a pair of DeArmonds out of the parts drawer. I know that these pickups have been in that drawer for at least 25 years. They are the white bobbin Guild pickups, but they do not have the impressed DeArmond Rowe on the back. Was this common for Guild. The DeArmonds on my 3 Gretschs...

letstalkguild.com

New Guild Day: 1970 Guild BluesBird M-75 DeLuxe

Sweet, always wanted a Sunburst from that era.

letstalkguild.com

Ralf

 

[Walter Broes]

You could get a tech to fabricate bezels for TV Jones' Filtertron-sized DeArmonds, orlook into Gabojo pickups or Mojo pickups UK'S soapbar sized DeArmonds

 

[Mapleman54]

Hello Guitarlover. In Hans Moust’s book (page 57) he mentions the white bobbin Dearmond variant on the early versions of the M75, and then has a great side-by-side pic (on page 71) showing the later Bluesbird variant with the Dearmonds and an after-market Bigsby. He mentions that these versions had specially machined wider mounting rings to cover up the holes routed for the wider Franz pickups, and you can see wider mounting rings in thes pics.
The pic enclosed is an original with white face Dearmonds, and a modern reissue with spec you are thinking about, with gold-foil Dearmonds, so clearly it can be done!
I have a 57 original single pickup variant (pictured) and recently had the aftermarket humbucker out thinking I might replace it with a Guild HB1, but I found that the relatively low string clearance on the guitar combined with the shallow body and acoustic struts inside wouldn’t allow the installation without substantial modification. (So didn’t touch it!) So I would suggest that string clearance might be an issue for any pickup change on an M75.
I’m sure that all friends on the LTG site will agree that a positive solution is to have two Aristocrats, being even better than one!

Congratulations.. and 3 is even better than 2!

 

[guitarlover]

You could get a tech to fabricate bezels for TV Jones' Filtertron-sized DeArmonds, orlook into Gabojo pickups or Mojo pickups UK'S soapbar sized DeArmonds

Something to talk about on a wednesday at the Guitar Bar ☺?

 

[BradHK]

I just took a look at some of my M-75 hollow bodies to see what would be needed. I am assuming the reissue Aristocrats are made like the 1950’s Aristocrats as I used my 1954 for measurements and an original DeAmond. The vintage DeArmond pickup bodies are a tad smaller than my original Franz pickups with covers. However, the mounting flange on the DeAmond is much larger than the pickup routing in the guitar. You could cut the side flange off the pickup and mount on the ends like shown above. However, that is still wider than the pickup route in the guitar and that would need to be expanded slightly on each side so that the pickup would mount on the original bracing, then you make the covers seen above that hide the mounting screws. This appears to be what Guild did on the originals that had DeArmonds.

However, if you have a hollow M-75 with Anti-hums or HB-1s then you can install DeArmonds by modifying the mounting flange on the pickups and mounting them under the original (or custom) pickup ring. The reason is that on these versions the bracing is wider to allow the humbuckers to fit. On my 1970 hollow M-75 with vintage DeAmonds some previous owner decided to not modify the flange on the orginal pickups but modified the pickup routes in the guitar to match the flange on the dearmond and made pickup rings to fit. The dearmond pickups with full flange fit between the top bracing. They could have just modified the mounting flange on the dearmond but they decided to modify the guitar rather than the pickups, strange choice.

Other than the GSR M-75 guitars, did Guild make a reissue full hollow M-75 with anti-hum pickups? If so, that would be the model to use as you could use reissue/copy DeArmonds and just modify the mounting flanges.

 

[Walter Broes]

That's why I mentioned those filtertron and p90 sized Dearmonds : no mounting flanges.

 

[guitarlover]

Other than the GSR M-75 guitars, did Guild make a reissue full hollow M-75 with anti-hum pickups? If so, that would be the model to use as you could use reissue/copy DeArmonds and just modify the mounting flanges.

No only with Franz pu. There is of course the reissue Bluesbird and Arsistocrat hh but these are not fully hollow and do not have that amazing vintage feel that I love so much.

 

[guitarlover]

Guild Newark St. M75 Aristocrat | GAD's Ramblings

Here we have a 2014 Guild Newark St. M75 Aristocrat in Gold. The gold top (goldtop) was a bit of a limited edition for guild that was only made for about a year before being discontinued, though it was not called a limited edition. Typically available in Antique Sunburst or Black, this guitar is...

www.gad.net

Here's a link to the excellent review from GARY about the Aristocrat.
There are a few pics that clearly show the PU cavities in the reissue version of the Aristocrat.

Dimensions of Franz pu : 80,5 mm - 35,5 mm (sorry I am a metric guy ;-) ).

 

[jp]

Quote from a member (JP) in another topic : " I also like to play an Aristocrat with original Dearmonds and a Bigsby "

This made me think : Would it be possible in an reissue Aristocrat M 75 to swap the Franz pick ups with Dearmond like pickups. ( It's not that I don't like the Franz pickups , on the contrary, but I just like the Aristicrat guitars so much and this would a good excuse to add another one to my collection ;-).

At a first glance the size and mounting "system" of the pickups seem to be different. So drilling seems necessary and I wonder what this would do with the bracing etc.

So would it be possible or am I talking nonsense ...

I've been thinking about modding my NS M-75 for a while, and I've pondered this since I got it. Walter's insights from a previous thread led me to TV Jones, where I suspect I might find a solution. They have multiple mounting options for Deamonds and Filtertrons that I think might work. I'm actually considering Filtertrons, since I love how versatile they are. Still pondering how to work out the Bigsby.

I just need to find time to pencil it all out. The thing is, I'm enjoying playing it too much to disassemble it. It's been my go to player for months now! :C)

 

[guitarlover]

I've further "investigated" this "project" and came to the conclusion that it is possible. However adaptations need to be made and so it will be expensive...
Another option would be to start from a reissue bluesbird and choose for humbucker sized dyna's... These would fit directly so less work...
Choices...;-)

 

[GAD]

Moved to the electric/solidbody forum. Though I known an Aristocrat has an arched top, I think the Archtop forum should be named something else, but that’s a topic for another time.

 

[guitarlover]

Moved to the electric/solidbody forum. Though I known an Aristocrat has an arched top, I think the Archtop forum should be named something else, but that’s a topic for another time.

Bit surprised since an Aristocrat is fully hollow (and other Aristocrat discussions are also in the Archtop/hollow department) but fine by me. Sorry to have chosen the wrong subdivision !

 

[GAD]

Bit surprised since an Aristocrat is fully hollow (and other Aristocrat discussions are also in the Archtop/hollow department) but fine by me. Sorry to have chosen the wrong subdivision !

No worries. I'll admit it's a bit confusing and the absolutely-real-technical-answer is probably archtops. I'd name it f-hole guitars but that would just trigger idiotic juvenile responses.

 

[BradHK]

No worries. I'll admit it's a bit confusing and the absolutely-real-technical-answer is probably archtops. I'd name it f-hole guitars but that would just trigger idiotic juvenile responses.

Even if you could use f-hole without the noted responses (which is highly unlikely!) I don’t think that would work as it would put the M-65 Freshman and Aristocrat/full hollow Bluesbird in different forums. Is the intent 1) Hollow and Semi Hollow Body and 2) solid and Chambered?

 

[GGJaguar]

I'd name it f-hole guitars but that would just trigger idiotic juvenile responses.

Give us a little more credit. Just a little.

 

[GAD]

I'll start a new thread about this to stop the veer.