Dealing with Starfire III DeArmond hum

[rbrcbr]

Hey everyone,

I just finally had my '62 SFIII refretted for my birthday, over at Brooklyn Lutherie. They did a killer job and I'm so happy with it. Turns out a neck reset wasn't necessary and it just really desperately needed nice new frets.

I'd noticed a while back that the guitar was particularly noisy at home, even though it had been dead silent at my old apartment in Atlanta and at the studio this summer. Never had any issues with hum until I moved to this current spot. Now that the guitar is finally in a spot where I'd be happy to gig with it, the noise is so strong that I dread actually taking it out to a gig. I can't even record it at home without the hum being a problem.

Currently I'm considering just getting an EHX Hum Debugger to try out but was curious what sort of solutions you all have worked out to make old DeArmonds not so noisy, both at home and at gigs?

The guitar had come with spacers under the pickups when I got it. Because the frets were so low, my old luthier in Atlanta took them out to get the action lower without hitting the pickup casing. I had Chloe at Brooklyn Lutherie put those back in because I thought they were original (she informed me they were not) and I think I'm going to take them out again. It feels like the pickups are now killing the sustain because they're too close to the strings - it's something I noticed even while unplugged, it sounded off acoustically. This might also be contributing to how loud the hum is too? It was plenty loud before putting the spacers back in though, from what I can remember.

Cheers,

Ruben

 

[Default]

Hum has got to be the environment, if it was quieter before. Check where dimmers and digital thermostats are, get a socket checker if you don't have one already. The usual stuff. Anything that draws power like an internet router can throw noise.

 

[Default]

I would take it on a gig. It might be less noisy there!

 

[Nuuska]

Before you change anything on that pretty guitar - go test it in some other place - maybe w some other amp - most likely it is about bad electrics in where you live now.

Just what default said.

 

[Shakeylee]

also double check your ground connections,

play it somewhere else,besides home, before a gig

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Ah yes, the old New York hum!

 

[rbrcbr]

Ah yes, the old New York hum!

You gotta love it hahahaha

Y'all are probably right, I should play it somewhere else before a gig. My only concern is it'll be dead quiet at another location and then noisy as hell at the gig due to lights and dirty power haha. I'll give it a shot.

 

[rbrcbr]

This reminds me that I was recently trying to record a demo with electric guitar recently and sing into a mic at the same time - kept getting shocked when my lips would touch the mic. Stopped messing with it because I know that is playing with fire. So my guess is that something must be real off with the wiring in my apartment and that's definitely affecting how noisy the Guild is. Thankful that I got the 3 prong conversion on my old Princeton else I probably would've fried myself.

 

[GAD]

Get an outlet tester. It could save your life.

Well, actually fixing faulty outlets could save your life, but the tester can start you down that path.

 

[Walter Broes]

Make sure you're not plugged into the same circuit as your main internet/wifi at your place.

 

[SFIV1967]

Home Electrical Wire Test Device - Yardbirds Keith Relf mention

New member to this Guild - found this site via recent search to learn more about Keith Relf who played for the Yard Birds. He was killed at home, electrocuted due to a grounding issue in his own basement. I use a simple hand held plug type device for wire checks which some here may find useful...

letstalkguild.com

Ralf

 

[GAD]

Make sure you're not plugged into the same circuit as your main internet/wifi at your place.

Why?

As an aside after Hurricane Sandy when they restored power after two weeks they messed up the neutral. Power always finds a way and the way it found was through the cable (and sometimes the well) because the cable was properly grounded at the demarc. melted all the insulation off the outside cable drip loop.

 

[Walter Broes]

Why?

Hum. I work at a guitar shop part time, and we get a lot of people with mystery hum - more than half of it solved by plugging amp/fx/etc in a different circuit than their modem

 

[GAD]

Hum. I work at a guitar shop part time, and we get a lot of people with mystery hum - more than half of it solved by plugging amp/fx/etc in a different circuit than their modem

Fascinating. I’d love to know why that’s the case.

I’d also love to know specifically if it’s routers or wireless access points causing it, but since probably 99% of people just use a single combined device from the provider I guess I’ll never know.

 

[Nuuska]

Having been in sound business - not HiFi , but pro-sound - The Very First thing about connecting things into electric grid is to make sure they are grounded ! Three-prong plug - Ground - Zero - Phase ! And when connecting more than one unit - make sure they share the same ground.

If a ground-loop exists - the correct solution is to cut the ground between the units - not the ground from one units power plug. There are extreme cases, where cutting the ground of one unit is the only solution, but then it must be done so, that the first unit, that person operates - guitar amp or vocal mic - and absolutely both if the person plays guitar and sings - are grounded properly. Some stuff further down the chain might be non-grounded - but most likely they get their ground via signal cables.

And what when you run a sound system, that needs more power than one outlet can supply?

Correct solution is to find a bigger outlet - over here we have 3-phase 230V system w usually 3x16A and 3x32 - often 3x63A outlets. Factories etc have still bigger outlets.

But when I go to a place w a band - I connect my 3x16A distro into the outlet - and divide electricity from my distro to everyone on stage. No matter if the walls are covered w outlets. Only one source is allowed. This way the grounding diagram resembles a tree - every branch or leave has a route to ground - but only one route.

It is common practice to take direct out from bass amp to pa - this is done w a dedicated DI-box - and it has a ground-lift switch that can be used, if needed. It cuts the ground between amp head and PA-mixer - while still leaving them both safely grounded via power cables. Some amps have built-in DI outputs w ground-lift switch. Essentially exactly the same thing.


Especially in old buildings w old electrics . . .
If you plug your guitar amp in one outlet - and your vocal system in another - even if they both are grounded - there is still a potential danger. Especially larger buildings have multiple power centrals - and if one outlet is feeded from "A" and the other from "B" - and these two centrals have their common ground - if any - hundreds of yards away - there is a potential risk of curling your hair - if you are lucky.



WiFi-routers and laptop switching PSU:s can emit radio frequencies that your guitar may pick up - just like the radiation from fluorecent lights - but that topic is another thing. There we are talking of how to wire and shield the instrument properly.

 

[GAD]

WiFi-routers and laptop switching PSU:s can emit radio frequencies that your guitar may pick up - just like the radiation from fluorecent lights - but that topic is another thing. There we are talking of how to wire and shield the instrument properly.

RFI wouldn't be solved by moving to another outlet, though.

In ham radio we are often confounded by the absolutely dreadful switching power supplies found in most modern electronics, but that's RF interference not ground hum.

 

[GAD]

BTW your story about the fanning power reminds me of the local off-off-OFF-broadway theater we have about 20 minutes from here. It's been there for decades and the sound system was installed by..., well I'm assuming the first person that came along who said they knew what they were doing. And then it had decades of what we in the networking business call "organic growth".

Sitting in the audience and watching a show is a battle for my sanity because there is a constant 60-cycle hum coming through the speakers. I was *this* close to standing up in the middle of the show and yelling, "Will you PLEASE just LET ME FIX THAT!" but my wife successfully clawed my arm enough to prevent me from doing so.

 

[Nuuska]

Right

I thought I wrote that RFI has nothing to do w grounding - did I not ?

 

[GAD]

Right

I thought I wrote that RFI has nothing to do w grounding - did I not ?

I don't know - maybe. There were a lot of words.

 

[fronobulax]

I thought I wrote that RFI has nothing to do w grounding

But...

I have equipment that picks up RFI from my wifi access point. I plug the equipment into a different circuit from the access point and the RFI is reduced. I"m sure that has absolutely nothing to do with the grounding and everything to do with the fact that the outlets are in different rooms and there is now a wall between the equipment and the access point.