De-fretting poll/question/community feeler..

[dlenaghan]

Well, Bassmanpatsfan (think it's his same handle here) reminded me some time ago that there'd been some idle chatter concerning a '72 JS-II I picked up a while ago on TalkBass so I thought I'd at least come by (it's not always convenient to come by since LTG blocks my region (Korea) so I have to use a VPN service or software, which is a bit of a hassle and I hate the ads..) ...

I put this poll up on TB hereso you can check it out directly, but here's the gist of it:

I now have 2 JS-IIs. I love them both, for different reasons.

And I want to turn one of them into a fretless. :shock: :mrgreen:

The red '70 has its original Hagstroms, humbucker at the bridge, bisonic at the neck. It's all original except for the rosewood saddles from Guild Bass Parts, and the plastic humbucker mount which is an OEM part from Hagstrom (And the electronics were shot so I replaced those with Tonestylers and an N-tune on board tuner with a standard 250k volume pot for the 'bucker). I cannot get over the neck on this bass - it's like it was made for me. I've NEVER played another instrument so comfortable, and the sound is lovely, especially put through a Sansamp - a bit of overdrive with either pickup (not so much in combination) is heavenly.

The natural '72 I picked up on TB, and it had already been modified:
- Brass custom bridge (the original snapped apparently, long ago) with custom-fitted brass saddles machined by a guy named Marko Ursine (I think.. spelling?) and mounted on a brass plate routed into the body.
- The electronics are the same as the red '70.
- The strap pegs are some kind of strap-lock (Which I don't really use - one of the charms of the peg placements on the JS is in my preferred playing position, it's never an issue!)

I've gotten responses all over the board, but we're at about 60% "Don't do it you fool and if you do Imma snatch that bass 'n wrappitup in plastic like it ought be!", 20% for the natural '72, 20% for 'other/Carrots (the TB cop-out reply)', and 10% for the red '70. I let people vote for more than one option.

Anyway, I love the red one as is, and think the '72 would be a great candidate because the tone is sharp, bright, and clear with excellent sustain... it's maybe a bit too bright even, though now that the strings have aged a bit (DR Sumbeams on both) it's better.. but I think it would be the best fretless in all the land.

I have played fretless before, for about 3 years on a Warwick Corvette Std 4-string. It was nice.. great with rounds, too ..

Oh.. I'm supposed to be at a meeting right now.
More later, check out the thread.

Opinions?!

 

[hieronymous]

Congrats on getting that JS from chromium - I was severely tempted myself!

As for the existence of factory fretless JS basses (I looked at the TB thread), it looks like there may have been some - you can see them in a catalog shot lower down on this page. I've got a factory fretless M-85 (solidbody with humbuckers) from around 1972 as well. So they are out there, just not that easy to find.

 

[dlenaghan]

Oh, I'm sure they're out there, especially with Guild's well-known propensity to do pretty much whatever the hell they wanted with their bass builds.

But... getting my hands on one is another matter.

I've been playing more on the natural one lately, and its strength is its bite, brightness, and improved sustain..

The red one is closet to a woody, acoustic, fretless-ish tone anyway..

Hard to say. I'd love a #3 but there's no way I'm going to drop the cash on anything but a Guild, whether it's a Starfire, M85, or JS.

I was considering finding a JS-I in need of some TLC and working it over into this defretted custom job, maybe even re-winding the pickup or getting a custom pickup done, something to the specs of the Darkstar (which, by the way, is currently being reproduced, or you could say the Bisonic is being re-reproduced, by a French builder here, although there are some cosmetic differences and improved flexibility of build and adjustment, being as it's a smaller bar that will fit into a wider variety of housings, therefore eliminating the need for routing.. but I'm de-railing my own tangent.)

JS-IIs. Fretless conversion. Right. Cheaper than buying ANOTHER JS and doing it, and a better option than approximating a somewhat similar bass and defretting it (since factory fretless models of the right bass, whether it's an Eastwood, or an Allen Woody, or what have you, don't seem to exist... and then they'd be inferior anyway.)

I've had some backup on this - there's very little "collector's value" in either bass, and even my Bisonic is in terrible shape cosmetically. Which I don't really care about, since all I care about is how it sounds.

Time to log off - cold medicine is kicking in and I'm rambly enough sober. (By cold medicine I mean cognac.)

 

[dlenaghan]

Wow. Double post. Oops. ::looks at snifter::

Too full? Or not full enough....? ;-)

 

[fronobulax]

No problem with the double posts. I do it all the time ;-)

Feel free to tell us more about the non-dark Star Bisonic replacement you mentioned. You may have alluded to it before but I have not heard anything from any other source.

I have a vague recollection I was on the now defunct Dude Pit when Marko was making bridges. Cool that his name is still attached to his work.

If you absolutely have to go fretless and can't buy another one I'd go for the '72/Natural. As much as it pains me to admit it, a JS bass is never really going to get the collector status whereby it commands over $1,000 in a normal market. So I'd just do it.

See a PM concerning blocking Korea.

 

[dlenaghan]

http://www.daguetguitars.com/

Same specs, wire type and gauge, magnet, pole pieces, etc., I haven't heard clips yet but they're specifically a Darkstar repro. Plus I like his aesthetic - he's suggested about 2500 bucks for a JS/Starfire inspired set neck semihollow.. been thinking about it.

Thanks for the PM - I'll look into the blocking issue.

 

[zulu]

A vote for the '72. I wouldn't mess with the neck on the '70 you love so much, plus the '72 is already modified anyway.

I did a fretless conversion on my Starfire and love it. Are you going to leave visible lines on the neck? A friend has a P-bass fretless conversion where the fret slots were filled with maple. It looks cool and the lines are readily visible. I went with black fret lines on the Starfire and it's hard (impossible) to see the lines in low light or stage lighting. Keep us posted.

 

[bassmanpatsfan18]

A vote for the '72. I wouldn't mess with the neck on the '70 you love so much, plus the '72 is already modified anyway.

I did a fretless conversion on my Starfire and love it. Are you going to leave visible lines on the neck? A friend has a P-bass fretless conversion where the fret slots were filled with maple. It looks cool and the lines are readily visible. I went with black fret lines on the Starfire and it's hard (impossible) to see the lines in low light or stage lighting. Keep us posted.

Nice. Do you have any pictures of your defretted Starfire? Sorry if you've posted them on here and I'm missing them, but I don't remember seeing any. Here's mine (on the right):

Dlenaghan, I voted for the '72 in your Talkbass thread and my vote hasn't changed.

 

[dlenaghan]

Yup, I recall your vote and PM.

I just feel in my gut it's the right thing to do. If I am regretful, I'll need another JS to replace/supplement it, if I don't mod my '72, I'll need another JS to mod and de-fret. So... it's a bit of 'same-same but different' (travelers experience in SE Asia will recall this phrase) as far as the situation goes.

As of now I'm thinking lines, something in the neighborhood of the rosewood but a bit lighter - not so bright as maple, but something that would be visible.

I will certainly keep you all posted and thanks for the continued input!

 

[zulu]

Nice. Do you have any pictures of your defretted Starfire? Sorry if you've posted them on here and I'm missing them, but I don't remember seeing any. Here's mine (on the right):


Dlenaghan, I voted for the '72 in your Talkbass thread and my vote hasn't changed.

Here's the only photo I have handy. Thanks for asking. That's a nice looking pair you've got there!

 

[dlenaghan]

:shock:

Very nice...

I've always loved those tight parallel grains that feature so prominently in the Starfires. Guild must have put those aside for aesthetic reasons. The grain in my JSs is very different. Lovely too, but different. Whenever I get a sunny day here in Seoul I'll have to get out my DSLR and improve upon the shoddy phone camera shots I've got.

What's the pickup config you've got there?

 

[zulu]

Thanks. Agree with you on the wood grain. Lots of those stripy starfire 6 stingers out there too.

The pickups...stock Bisonic at the neck Guild humbucker at the bridge, and somewhere back in time a previous owner saw it fit to install a six string guitar pickup in the middle. Must have seemed like a good idea at the time... :?

But you can see the black lines where the frets were. They were done with ebony sawdust and glue. It doesn't have to be wood in there, you could choose any color, yellow, red, purple fret lines.. or multicolor!

Good luck with your project. 8)

 

[Happy Face]

If you don't have an immediate need for a fretless, why not wait for an abused orphan JS I in need of some TLC? Not that I oppose modding a bass you use, but it sounds like your two babies are different enough to merit leaving them as is.

 

[Happy Face]

For example, check out the fretless SB 202 on Ebay right now. Seller ships worldwide.

 

[dlenaghan]

That SB is alright, but I've moved on from 34" scale instruments and when I go back and try them out, they're just not for me.

Guild should really just reissue their old models.. I think those decades are ripe for a comeback.

 

[fronobulax]

That SB is alright, but I've moved on from 34" scale instruments and when I go back and try them out, they're just not for me.

Guild should really just reissue their old models.. I think those decades are ripe for a comeback.

They should but I really would not expect a JS to be among them. To veer a bit, if it were my decision and I lost my job by making the wrong one, I'd start out with a Starfire II and would expect my success to depend a bit on how close the pickups came to the Bisonic sound. I would separate the Starfires of the 21st Century from their vintage and 90's reissues brethren by expanding the finish options. I'd offer the traditional red, sunburst, natural, black and green but also pretty much anything that was ever a color on a Fender. It's probably just me, but there are a couple of shades of blue I'd love to see on my bass. If I get to reissue two models, I'm torn between the solid M-85 or the Pilot. The former would probably sell better because there are several contemporary players using one but the latter gives me more room to play when I try and "tune" my specs so that I appeal to the current market and remain true to the Guild heritage.

Curious that you have "moved on" from the 34" scale. I have trouble playing it myself, but I note a lot of folks prefer it, so it seems like you have a specific sound in mind or are just swimming against the current.

 

[Happy Face]

Isn't the B 202 a shortie? An odd duck, with that lovely Guild neck attached to a not-so-lovely body.

You have to wonder about reissues. There was recent experience with the D'A Starfires and Jetstars. And the Starfire II before them. They must figger it's not worth the effort. A little reminiscent of the calls on the Ricky boards for a 4005 reissue. The issue there is the probable cost..
Some say it wd cost $10,000.

 

[hieronymous]

A little reminiscent of the calls on the Ricky boards for a 2005 reissue. The issue there is the probable cost..
Some say it wd cost $10,000.

Did you mean 4005? The tuna-boat?

 

[Happy Face]

yes sir!

Though never took to the Tuna Boat moniker. I played one for 27 years and found it quite comfortable. Not cumbersome at all. Sold it when it became too expensive to use... Yeah, stupid.

In fact, at the risk of being tarred & feathered and then banished from LTD for all eternity, I found it more comfortable to play than a Starfire. But I'm a shrimp.

 

[fronobulax]

Isn't the B 202 a shortie?

This, plus counting frets on a couple of pictures suggests a 34" scale.