D25 Q's

[brian f]

Recent eBay listings for D25's have gone for $525-$575. A lot of them seem to have "buy it now" options of around $800. Is grabbing a $600 1970's D25 in pretty good shape a good deal?

Additional Q's about D25's:

When did they move from MAhogany to Spruce top? Or is this a differentiation made in model (D25M)??

When did they make the laminated arched backs? Did they ever make a carved arched back? Both would be absent of bracing, correct?

Other differences between early-70's and late-70's D25's ??

 

[jrfmgb]

I cannot answer your technical questions, other with much more knowledge surely will, but-

Getting a Westerly '70s D 25 in good condition for $600. is an OK deal. They have become more common on EBAY so you should be able to find one with only cosmetic/normal use issues.
You should expect to pay less for any models with repaired cracks.

I paid $600 for my '75 D-25M at a local store six months ago, and I do not regret it one bit.

I also own a Martin HD-35, Taylor 510, Stelling RHD 125 and others. The GUILD would be the last one that I would sell.

 

[GardMan]

Brian,

$600 is a decent eBay price for a '70s era D-25 in G-VG condition (dings and nicks, but no cracks or structural problems)... I paid $565 for my '74 in July 06.

Hans could (surely) provide more info, but my understanding is that prior to ~'73, D-25s were all mahogany with flat backs. The transition to spruce tops with arched backs occurred ~'73. During the transition, there were some D-25s made with mahogany tops and arched mahogany backs (a few have sold oneBay recently). After the transition, D-25s all had the spruce top/arched back... tops were commonly stained "mahogany (M)," "cherry (CH)," "sunburst (SB)," "brown (BR... don't know if there were arched back browns?)," or "natural (NT)."

To my knowledge, the arched backs of D-25s were never carved... always laminated.

Which are most desireable (flat- or arched-back) seems to be a matter of opinion. In watching prices for a couple years, the flat-backs in good condition might be priced a wee bit higher than the arched.
Dave

 

[Bikerdoc]

The D25 was introduced in the late 60's and discontinued in 1986. From '87 (reintorduction)the D25 has been mahogany back and sides with a spruce top. The 70's models D25M has some controversy in the claims that the "M" just means a dark mahogany finish and not a Mahogany top. My opinion, based on my research, is that prior to 1987 the top was Mahogany. I have an '86 D15M and it is all mahogany. I've been offered $850.00 for my guitar but of course it's not for sale. A 70's D25 at $600.00 is a good deal for a decent guitar not in need of major repair. And if it truly is all mahogany as I suspect it is you'll love the sound.

 

[GardMan]

Biker... from the mid-70s (about '74 on) til sometime in the 80s, the D-25s had spruce tops and arched mahogany backs. On the D-25Ms from this period, the M refers to a spruce top stained to look like mahogany (in my opnion, it doesn't really). The mid-'70s switch to spruce tops is documented in Hans' book, and I believe also in Beesley's (I'll have to look tonight). I can say with certainty that my '74 D-25M has a stained spruce top. I haven't really followed what happened to the design specs past the early '80s, so don't know what happened after that.
Dave

 

[Bikerdoc]

It's all very interesting to say the least. Trying to get all the ducks in a row on manufacturer's products is a real challenge. I can only imagine the difficulty wiith Martin down the road with all the new models.

 

[GardMan]

I think the myriad of changes occuring in the '80s... with an explosion of different models with overlapping specs (think of just the dreads... with 15s, 16s, 17s, and more, now add all the other styles)... is one of the things driving Hans crazy trying to put together vol II!

 

[fungusyoung]

I am absolutely stunned by all of the variations that exist within several Guild acoustic lines. The recent Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood thread is another fascinating example... it blows my mind that some folks have guitars of this caliber and don't know for sure if they have Braz or EIR.

The D25 is a great example of Guild's confusing production changes. Does anyone know for sure when they switched from all hog/straight backs to spruce top & arched backs? I've heard everything from '71 - '74. It all seems so haphazard because by the early 80's they started the D15, which is basically what the older D25's were (least as far as I can tell). Then they dragged out D16's and D17's, which were also similar or the same as other D25 designs.

When Guild did major design changes (like wood types), why not change the model number at that point? It just seems bizarre to me. The record keeping appears to be pretty awful too. I seriously doubt Martin will have the same problems, but I could be wrong.

One thing is for sure, I have more respect for Hans with each bit of knowledge that I gain about Guild guitars. How he is able to track down just the technical model specs., changes, etc. is unbelievable.

 

[GardMan]

I am sure Hans knows more than I do.... but, based on what I have seen for sale on eBay and Gbase in the 18 months I have been watching them, there are few, if any, flat backed D-25s after 1972... maybe a few in early '73? Most 1973 D-25s I have seen have had spruce tops (more commonly) and arched backs, or mahogany tops (more rarely) and arched backs. From '74 on thru '79, I have only seen spruce tops (various stained versions) and arched mahogany backs... except for one "mistake" flat back "D-25," which turned out to be a D-35 that had gotten (by mistake or design) a stained top, and thus the paper label called it a D-25 (the neck block had D-35 clearly printed on it). I haven't paid much attention to the '80s D-25s.

One of the confounding issues is Guild's penchant for using whatever they have on hand... I can hear someone saying "Let's not let all those good mahogany tops go to waste. Let's just put them on an arched back until they're gone..." I sure would like to hear a side-by-side of an all mahogany/flat backed with an all mahogany/arched-back with a spruce-topped/arched-back from closely spaced years (possible with all '73s?)...
Dave