D-25C twins... but not identical

[hearth_man]

I had been meaning to post a photo of my twins, D-25C twins that is. I have had the one on the left for a number of years now. The one on the right I recently purchased. The interesting thing is that they have sequential serial numbers and both have a Jan 18 1984 date stamped on their neck blocks. Hence the D-25C twins. Of course neither the sequential serial numbers or identical neck block dates means they left the Westerly shop on the same day. But near enough for me.

As many of you know these are spruce top, mahogany body arch back guitars with one piece mahogany necks with rosewood fingerboards and bridges. Both guitars appear not to have had any structural work done to them such as neck resets, reglued bridges and so on. They are both player grade guitars with some finish issues (mainly the guitar on the left), along with the typical scratches and dings. They have the same construction with one exception. The guitar on the left with lighter colored bridge has the original Guild saddle but the one on the right has a replacement compensated plastic saddle(nothing special). The action and neck angle is approximately the same on both as are the strings, D'Addario 80/20 13s.

But they are not identical in sound. The guitar on the left has a bit more of a balanced and blended sound string to string than the guitar on the right and is not quite as loud as the guitar on the right. The guitar on the right is a bit more boomy sounding and a bit louder in general. Also not quite as well blended across all six strings. Each string stands out a bit more as an individual than the guitar on the left. These differences are certainly not night and day type differences you would find between different Guild models and body materials and construction but each is unique.

I'll leave it up to those who know these things better than I do as to why they may differ but they are both nice sounding Guilds with that classic D-25 sound!

The Twins...

 

[GGJaguar]

Wow, cool!

 

[Christopher Cozad]

Sequential Serial Numbers. That is really something, Hearth Man, definitely a “first” for me. There may be no better way to A/B test two Guild guitars.

To get closer to a fair comparison, I would install identical saddles (bone), bridge pins (plastic, wood, bone, titanium), and strings on both instruments, and conduct a “blinded”listening test. Have a friend strum while you listen, deliberately hiding which instrument is which (turn your back or wear a blindfold). Write down your results, then reverse the test participants and have the listener write the results. Conduct the test as many times as you wish, and with as many participants as you can find. The more, the merrier. Compare the results and see if you discover anything new.

There is always the possibility that one of the saddles is not seating perfectly. That could certainly account for differences in the output. It would be worth verifying that both saddle slots are dead flat, as well as the bottom of the new saddles.

At the very least, for a minimal investment you end up with better-sounding guitars. But I am thinking about how cool it will be when you post your adventure here at LTG!

After testing, if the sound differences of any significance remained between the two guitars, I would probably first look to the bridge and/or bracing to start to explain any disparity.

 

[HeyMikey]

Yah, that is very cool having twins like that. And… what Chris said.

 

[hearth_man]

Sequential Serial Numbers. That is really something, Hearth Man, definitely a “first” for me. There may be no better way to A/B test two Guild guitars.

To get closer to a fair comparison, I would install identical saddles (bone), bridge pins (plastic, wood, bone, titanium), and strings on both instruments, and conduct a “blinded”listening test. Have a friend strum while you listen, deliberately hiding which instrument is which (turn your back or wear a blindfold). Write down your results, then reverse the test participants and have the listener write the results. Conduct the test as many times as you wish, and with as many participants as you can find. The more, the merrier. Compare the results and see if you discover anything new.

There is always the possibility that one of the saddles is not seating perfectly. That could certainly account for differences in the output. It would be worth verifying that both saddle slots are dead flat, as well as the bottom of the new saddles.

At the very least, for a minimal investment you end up with better-sounding guitars. But I am thinking about how cool it will be when you post your adventure here at LTG!

After testing, if the sound differences of any significance remained between the two guitars, I would probably first look to the bridge and/or bracing to start to explain any disparity.

Great suggestions Chris! When I have a chance I will replace both saddles and check the bottom of the saddle slots for flatness.

 

[fuman]

What a great post! Thanks.

 

[The Hawk]

Proud dad, as you should be, hearth-man! I'm often jealous while reading posts here. You made me very jealous today.

 

[chazmo]

Proud dad, as you should be, hearth-man! I'm often jealous while reading posts here. You made me very jealous today.

Don’t be jealous, Hawk. Get even!

 

[Guildedagain]

Probably the best bang for the buck in the history of guitars?

 

[hearth_man]

A quick update. Per Chris's suggestion I replaced the saddles on both guitars with bone compensated saddles. I used MacNichol bone saddles and modified to fit. The bridge saddle routings were clean and flat so no extra work there.

My first D25C, on the left in the photo above, had the original factory saddle. The new bone saddle did increase the volume a tad but the balance and tone remained the same. (I usually don't replace the Guild factory saddles as they seem to sound fine, to me at least)

My most recent D25C, on the right, had an after market "inferior plastic" compensated saddle that broke apart when I removed it. The new bone saddle on this guitar greatly improved the tone and string balance across all six strings.

I would say that replacing the saddles has brought the two guitars closer in tone and string balance. The D25C on the right is still a bit louder and maybe a bit brighter than the one on left. They are certainly closer to each other than they had been and both are good sounding guitars. That's the great thing about guitars that are built with more hands on craftsmanship as the Westerly Guild's were. Each guitar is going to have a bit of personality of its own. But with Guild it is not so much of a difference as to make one guitar good and the next poor.

 

[plaidseason]

This is one of my all time favorite acoustic guitars models by anyone. I just love the cutaway shape. And I'm already a big D25/DCE1 fan.