D-25 HAIRLINE crack

[Mingus]

OK. . .backstory. . .

So I got this overprice '72 all Mahogany D-25 from a dealer (Lark Street Music in Teaneck, NJ). I overpaid because It played great, sounded great, looked great and was from a dealer. Buzz at Lark Street seems like a really cool guy so I felt pretty comfortable buying the guitar there.

So the store is pretty dark and I was just taken with the instrument. It had a little belly. . .but I was OK with that. In my excitement I didn't really inspect the finish really carefully. So I bring it home and check it out and there's a crack. . .almost 5". . .running from the edge up towards the bridge. It looks like it could just be a finish crack. . .I couldn't tell if it REALLY ran with the grain or not. The grain is tough for me to see in the mahogany. It went in the same DIRECTION as the grain, but to me looked like it may have gone across a few grain lines. I immediately emailed Buzz, who replied that he hadn't noticed the crack and that it was probably just a finish crack (like I suspected) or a pro repair. Only way to know for sure would be to bring it in. He also said not to worry. . .I had a 6 month guarantee! Great I thought. . .Only issue was that I really didn't want to bring it out in the weather. . .humidity was really low. By the time the temp/humidity got nice, I had already gotten a mirror in there and not seen any cracks inside. COOL!!!

So tonight. . .i'm changing the strings and had the strings off. I figure. . .let me check again. Still can't see anything, but i decided to stick my arm in there and feel around. YEP! I totally wouldn't have even noticed it if my calouses weren't peeling on my left hand fingers! I'm pretty sure it's there though.

So the dilemma now is. . .what do I do? I immediately sat down at my computer and emailed Buzz. He seems like the kind of guy that would make it right. I don't want to return the guitar. . .I like it too much. Fix the crack? I would totally leave it alone if I knew it was never going to move. . .ever. So fix it? Does anyone have any experience with Lark Street? Buzz seems like a real cool guy. . .and knows his stuff. . .he's just not my normal repair person, so i've never had any experience. Has anyone had anything repaired there?

So who's had a hairline crack that they fixed? How much was it to fix? Did the fix change the tone any? (love this guitar's tone) Who's left a hairline crack in the top and never had a problem? Who's left it and HAD a problem? What WAS the problem?

I'm just trying to weigh my options here. It's a totally sweet guitar and i'd hate to give it up, spoil the tone, or have it ruined.

EDIT: I just felt around again. . .because it's bothering me! It tapers off and stops right at the brace. So I assume the brace is what stopped it from cracking farther. Correct? Maybe the brace is acting like a cleat kind of to keep it together?

-James

 

[FNG]

Wood cracks. If you like the guitar, and you have a good repair guy nearby, just get it fixed.

 

[Mingus]

Wood cracks. If you like the guitar, and you have a good repair guy nearby, just get it fixed.

Yeah. . .wood cracks. But do you think it'll hold if I DON'T get it fixed? I'm pretty sure I can have the seller fix it. . .just haven't done any repair business there before.

 

[FNG]

Wood cracks. If you like the guitar, and you have a good repair guy nearby, just get it fixed.

Yeah. . .wood cracks. But do you think it'll hold if I DON'T get it fixed? I'm pretty sure I can have the seller fix it. . .just haven't done any repair business there before.

It might, give the guitar a good dose of humidity, see how that affects the crack. Might stabilize it.

Are you up north in the cold? Could be the guitar has dried out too much.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Talk to Buzz and get a feel for what he will do and what he knows about repairing cracks.
A repaired crack should not change the sound of the guitar.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Well I don't know where you are in relation to Teaneck but if you want to get a second opinion on it there's Mandolin Bros. out on Staten Island, or the The Guitar Guy (No web site, 732-286-2333) down in Toms River NJ.

Paul the "Guitar Guy" does have a web site for his new guitar business; http://www.unkguitars.com/.

He does all kinds of repairs, tell 'em Kurt with all the Guilds sent ya!

 

[J45dale]

I guess you have to figure out if the crack is growing. Humidfy before the string change, then look at the top from the underside with a light and mirrow.
I have 40's Gibson LG-2 with a pickguard crack clear thru. It sounds great and the crack is not growing, so I keep it humidifyed and just play it.
I have a 85 Guild D25 with too many cracks to mention,( e-bay deal), it appears to have all its cracks roughly filled with a case-knife, useing a mix of Elmers glue and auto bondo, ( so much for repairmen). Oddly it sounds great, and is a great jam guitar, that I don't have to worry over too much.
My experiences are good, repaired or not. If the problem is not growing its your call.
Dale.

 

[BluesDan]

My M-20 has had a similar crack as your description going on 10 years now. I keep it humidified and it has not budged. I play that guitar fairly hard several times a week and still no movement on the crack, seems stable. With that said, it bothers me enough that every time I pick up the guitar, or sometimes just walk past it, I pick her up and inspect her to check for movement. I always felt that if it looked like she was getting any worse I would take her in for repair. Justified or not, I always had the fear that a repair just might change the tone of the top, despite persons more knowledgeable than myself in the luthier dept. assuring me that it wouldn't.

Don't know if this helps you decide or not, just throwin' it out there......good luck.

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Dan; subject to what Hideglue, Don, or others more knowledgeable might have to say, I understand that conventional crack-fixing involves 'cleating'; spanning the crack as many times as necessary with something I guess resembling a staple but thicker in diameter but with much shorter legs.

Not too hard to imagine, with strings off, spanning the deck with a clamp to close the crack and reaching in/under and pushing/tapping cleats in place across the crack. Releasing the clamp would stress the cleat helping to keep it in place. Alternatively, fashioning some butterfly-shaped, thin wood cleats or 'tabs' as they're known in fiberglass work, with clamp in place and with glue, clamping one or more butterfly cleats/tabs across the crack.

For those who might be called 'too anal*' and worry over the action of the top, consider that the separated top sections, thanks to the crack, no longer move in unison and necessarily will not operate correctly. Whatever 'resistance' to movement cleating might offer is offset by improved top action ... but who's measuring ... and you get the cosmetics - if applicable - fixed too.

*Borrowed from a credible BBer.

J

 

[Mingus]

All great points! I'll probably bring it to Buzz at Larkstreet today or Monday to see what he has to say. I want to be real careful about how I approach this as I do not want him to feel like I'm trying to take advantage. Yes, of course if he made the Guarantee he has a responsibility to fix it but A) I did not notice the crack until I got home and B) he has not seen it yet. If I were him, i'd probably be a little skeptical about the crack's origins.

I have a feeling that, while low humidity may have had a part in it, the crack may have been caused by a little past-owner abuse. There's quite a belly at the bridge and the bridge has obviously been reglued. Despite this, it sounds and plays like a dream. . .so this isn't some lemon that I got ripped off on. I'm not going to try to sell Buzz on the idea that I think I got a lemon. I'll lay it flat out that I think I got a great instrument here, but am concerned about the crack. If i'm confident that he can do the repair, and he offers. . .great. If he's "got someone" that he's going to send it to. . .well i'd be more confident going to my normal guy. . .or even mandolin brothers.

-James

 

[BluesDan]

Hi Dan; subject to what Hideglue, Don, or others more knowledgeable might have to say, I understand that conventional crack-fixing involves 'cleating'; spanning the crack as many times as necessary with something I guess resembling a staple but thicker in diameter but with much shorter legs.

Not too hard to imagine, with strings off, spanning the deck with a clamp to close the crack and reaching in/under and pushing/tapping cleats in place across the crack. Releasing the clamp would stress the cleat helping to keep it in place. Alternatively, fashioning some butterfly-shaped, thin wood cleats or 'tabs' as they're known in fiberglass work, with clamp in place and with glue, clamping one or more butterfly cleats/tabs across the crack.

For those who might be called 'too anal*' and worry over the action of the top, consider that the separated top sections, thanks to the crack, no longer move in unison and necessarily will not operate correctly. Whatever 'resistance' to movement cleating might offer is offset by improved top action ... but who's measuring ... and you get the cosmetics - if applicable - fixed too.

*Borrowed from a credible BBer.

J

Noooooo Cap!.........don't misunderstand me......I BELIEVE the persons more knowledgeable about the tone after a crack repair, its just my own unfounded fear, and the fact that the crack seems stable, that I put off having it done. Was by no means a shot at anyone about the proper methods of repair. I was simply offering up that mine hasn't moved or gotten worse in 10 years and with proper humidification is barely visible. For what its worth, I noticed no difference in tone from "pre-crack" to "post-crack" which is another reason I am just letting it be. I thought Mingus was looking for "To repair or not to repair" stories, I was in no way looking to offer up professional advice of what SHOULD be done as I am in no way qualified to do so. Was just supposed to be a simple"This is what I did" story. Did not mean to offend. Sorry for any confusion with that. Still getting used to properly conveying my thoughts on these forums........

 

[Mingus]

I thought Mingus was looking for "To repair or not to repair" stories,

Yep. . .keep those coming!

-James

 

[dreadnut]

Ming, if it's straight up the middle, it may just be where the two pieces of the top come together, which really isn't a crack at all.

My D-25 developed a small crack at the top of the pickguard, I had it glued and cleated underneath, life is good now. I didn't even have the crack re-finished, would've cost a lot more, I just wanted it stopped in its tracks. Maybe someday I'll pay to get it looking perfect, but I doubt it.

 

[capnjuan]

No Cap!.........don't misunderstand me......

Hi Dan; no problem. I was just expanding the subject hoping to get someone who really knew what they were talking about to confirm or straighten me out on the how to fix stuff; not the whether or when to fix. If it wasn't clear, my yack above applies to clean-through cracks, not finish cracks or fractures. J

 

[Mingus]

definitely not in the middle. . .it'sabout halfway between the middle and the side. . .

 

[capnjuan]

definitely not in the middle. . .it'sabout halfway between the middle and the side. . .

Hi James; is it clean through or confined to the finish? cj

 

[Mingus]

i can feel it but not see it under the top. . .so yeah. . .it's clean through

 

[capnjuan]

Hi James; well - you'll have to decide. Typically, cracks have little effect on tone or playability. If you are concerned it might be a runner or it irritates you for cosmetic reasons, then take it somewhere and ask if it can be diminished / vanished and how much they want. If the fix is no more complicated than I've suggested, then it might not be all that much anyway.

As far as guitarnomics are concerned, IMO, saying that an instrument has a professionally repaired crack is considerably more appealling than: "guitar has a crack, looks like an inexpensive fix..." where the sub-text is: "...I didn't think enough of the guitar to bother to get it repaired...I just preferred being unhappy with it". :wink: cj

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

I have a lot of experience with Buzz, and I guarantee you he is a premier expert not only on guitars in general, but on Guilds in particular. And I can also guarantee you that he is very highly respected by the other experts.

In my experience, he is careful about details. He noticed that the jackplate on a Guild I bought from him was not original; I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.

There are only a few dealers I prefer to work with, and he is one of them.

 

[Mingus]

I have a lot of experience with Buzz, and I guarantee you he is a premier expert not only on guitars in general, but on Guilds in particular. And I can also guarantee you that he is very highly respected by the other experts.

In my experience, he is careful about details. He noticed that the jackplate on a Guild I bought from him was not original; I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.

There are only a few dealers I prefer to work with, and he is one of them.

THAT'S what I like to hear! Phoenix? My parents live about an hour from there. What are you doing coming all the way here for guitars? I don't even go all the way out there for my parents!