Changing 1 3/4 nut to 1 11/16?

[Stuball48]

What is involved in changing a guitar built with 1 3/4 nut to 1 11/16? My first thought was it would be simple fix - just change the nut and saddle. But then I got to thinking about the bridge and tuning peg alignment. Anybody have any thoughts. Thanks

 

[SFIV1967]

Not sure how you want to achieve this as nut width usually means fingerboard width. So having a smaller nut would give you two rough or sharp edges of the fingerboard at the nut. I guess what you want to achieve is a tighter string spacing from E to e ? That means getting a new 1 3/4"nut and slotting the string spacing tighter like on a 1 11/16" nut. Now you have more space from each E string to the edge of the fingerboard. That can be nice but also can make it harder for fretting or using your thumb to fret the low E-string.
Regarding saddle spacing: with tighter spacing at the nut you need to see that the distance from the edge of the finger board to both the E strings stays the same over the entire fingerboard, so you might also have to tighten the space between the strings at the saddle. But that can get difficult as often the pin holes are aligned with the string spacing, so you might have to create artificial ramps (channels) to route them slightly tighter over the saddle.

Ralf

 

[Stuball48]

Thanks Ralf--your thoughts make me think there is more to it than I imagined. My other guitars with 1 11/16 nut width are just more comfortable to play. Do not plan to make a quick decision and hoping other share their thoughts.

 

[davismanLV]

Just get a 1 3/4 nut and space it for 1 11/16ths making sure it's centered and you're good to go. You're gonna have extra room on each side of E and e but either it works for you, or not. If not switch back. Those spacing distance differences are rather miniscule......

 

[bobouz]

Neck profiles are much more problematic than string spacing for me. My preference is for narrower profiles, and it doesn’t take much for a neck to feel uncomfortably chunky. Hope you can get it worked out to your satisfaction.

 

[jedzep]

Tom has a good angle. Install the new modified nut, leave the saddle, and see how you like it.

 

[fronobulax]

You could, as @davismanLV said, just get an unslotted nut and slot it with the spacing it would have if it were a 1 11/16" nut. Given that you are dealing with small tolerances I hope you have better skills and tools than I do. I'm reminded of the old adage - What's the difference between a carpenter and a cabinet maker? About 1/8". Anyway once that was done you would then find out what other adjustments were required but probably none.

You might also step back and ask why? I am a firm believer in the hypothesis that people don't always distinguish between nut width and neck profile when dealing with ergonomics. Not that you can fix neck profile easily or cheaply but... Comment doesn't apply if you are finger picking. There is a reason classical necks are wide

 

[Stuball48]

Maybe I ought to make myself play this guitar more and see what happens if I don't do anything!

 

[Russell Letson]

Changing the spacing at the nut is not going to change the feel of the neck all that much--as Fronobulax points out, it doesn't address neck profile, and I would add that it doesn't address fingerboard radius, either. All it changes is string spacing at the nut, and without also changing the spacing at the saddle, it's going to give the neck some strange geometry, as the strings spread out across that very small difference. And at the nut end, it's going to put the E strings farther in from the edge of the neck, which is not necessarily a desirable thing.

About necks and hands and playability: My hands have finally aged enough that one of my guitars gives discomfort, and it's not just the width at the nut (which is the same as two other guitars)--it's profile and radius at that width. It's a Michael Dunn Selmer-style, with a classical-style flat 1-7/8" fingerboard and a very low, nearly flat profile. That combination (along with my long-standing bad habit of thumb-wrapping) means I scrunch up my left hand, stressing the thumb joint and the big muscle at its base. Instruments with beefier necks and/or radiused fingerboards are more comfortable, even at the same width. I acquired a Shelley Park guitar with a slightly beefier and narrower neck (1-3/4") that does not cause the same discomfort, and my old D-40 with its '60s Guild neck is as comfortable as ever. (Though all my guitars remind me that I no longer have the iron hands I did a decade ago.)

 

[swiveltung]

As others said, I suppose if your goal is narrower string spacing, a custom nut with that but overall 1.75 to fill the slot is easily done. I dont think it will effect much else, the string spacing change will be almost un noticaeble up the neck. But that leaves you with, does it really matter? Maybe, I dislike 1.75 on the guitars I try... when cowboy chording.

 

[davismanLV]

You could, as @davismanLV said, just get an unslotted nut and slot it with the spacing it would have if it were a 1 11/16" nut. Given that you are dealing with small tolerances I hope you have better skills and tools than I do. I'm reminded of the old adage - What's the difference between a carpenter and a cabinet maker? About 1/8". Anyway once that was done you would then find out what other adjustments were required but probably none.

You might also step back and ask why? I am a firm believer in the hypothesis that people don't always distinguish between nut width and neck profile when dealing with ergonomics. Not that you can fix neck profile easily or cheaply but... Comment doesn't apply if you are finger picking. There is a reason classical necks are wide

Tom loves the joke!! That's a good one!!!

 

[pagedr]

I had a repairperson do this on a guitar for me once, the end result wasn't really what I was hoping for. I had him switch it back, and eventually just adapted to the 1 3/4" nut width.

 

[Stuball48]

I had a repairperson do this on a guitar for me once, the end result wasn't really what I was hoping for. I had him switch it back, and eventually just adapted to the 1 3/4" nut width.

From the replies, I am not going to be so quick.

 

[swiveltung]

Measuring 1.75 and 1.69 slotted nuts here, I'm getting .020-.030 TOTAL width of string spacing E to e difference. So you are narrowing the string spacing by only maybe ~ .010+ on each side.... about the thickness of two sheets of printing paper.

 

[davismanLV]

Stuball, people are always talking nut width and spec on both of my 1994 Guilds was 1 11/16ths inches. I think that's what the spacing is because i'm sure that was marked with a template and done. The neck width at the nut is 1 3/4 on each of them. So that gives me a little (tiny, tiny bit) of extra room on each side of the e's. Playing them with the tiny, tiny bit of extra space is no problem for me at all. Now my Taylor is 1 3/4 inches on the width and the string spacing is also set for 1 3/4, so that means (to me) I have very little room on each side of the e's and I've had to adjust my playing over the years on that guitar to keep from pushing the outer strings off the fretboard. THAT has caused me more trouble than the extra space on my Guilds! These are tiny little distances but they make a difference, especially for my big hands, and the Taylor is easier for me to fit my fingers but more trouble along the edges.

So my purpose in saying my shortened response is because it's easy, not terribly expensive, easily reversible, and you'll know rather quickly if that tiny, tiny little bit extra (super tiny) is going to cause you any grief. If it was the neck dimensions I'd think you'd have picked up on that before now, but possibly not. But a quick and easy "tell" that'll be easy to undo. Whenever I play the Taylor it takes me a couple of pushing the e's off the edge to orient my brain and alter my playing style to suit.

 

[wileypickett]

We've seen several posts over the years by people who want to alter the string spacing from 1 & 15/16"s to 1 & 3/4" -- this is the first I recall seeing where someone wants to go the other way.

Maybe y'all should get together and trade guitars?!

 

[Tom O]

What Guild is it? I am sure some one may want to trade for it. Guild is not making any 1 3/4 in nuts now per their website. 1 3/4 in is better for finger picking. It is not hard to switch back and forth between 1 11/16 and 1 3/4, especially if you have a twelve sting as well.

 

[Stuball48]

It is not a Guild, it is a Chris Bozung CB 45 Dread. Chris's version of Martin D45 with Adi top and Brazilian back and sides. Chris made it for a Martin Lover and the Martin Lover got into building a dragster and needed money so we agreed on a price and I bought it. Then I had Chris build me a CB Super with 1 11/16 nut width. It is my favorite by far,. You might be wondering why I don't just take it to Chris and have him "make it play like the CB Super." I do not want to take advantage of our friendship because he would do it for a little of nothing and I am not gonna do that. I took Chris a 1971 D40 that needed a neck set, lose braces reglued, and cracked end piece of binding replaced. He did all that, plus lower the action, and dress the frets for $350. He could have charged more so I thought I would get opinions from here and if not complicated, get it done elsewhere.
Probably not a smart idea. May wind up taking it to him but not ready, yet.

 

[Stuball48]

 

[chazmo]

Stu, that's a mighty fancy dread. Nice. Very beautiful inlays. Frankly, much nicer to my eyes than a D-45... That's just me talking.