Buying used (online), what are your personal rules that guide you?

[E-Type]

I've been looking for a D25 (first early flat back and now mid 70s arch back). Obviously, you cannot find them at every local GC. I cannot tell you how many Reverb sellers have a no return policy and also don't list detailed information about the action or bridge/saddle. With a neck reset potentially adding 50%-70% to the cost, I am limiting myself to guitars with at least a 1 day return policy. Some ads say "low action", but when asked either don't respond or will come back with 7/64" or 8/64" (not what I'd call "low"). I'm one of those sellers that lists neck widths and thickness at the 1st, 5th, and 12th fret and the action of the e strings at the 12th. And I give a 3 day return window. But I feel like I'm an outlier.

Anyway. So what do you look for? What risk are you willing to take? Am I being unreasonable is messaging and asking sellers about this?

 

[Neal]

The cost of shipping has gotten so high that a lot of sellers are no longer willing to accept returns, even if the buyer pays return shipping. This is especially true of guitars under $1000. You risk losing $100-$125 in having the guitar returned to you. Maybe more than once! So, I get it.

The key to being confident about buying online is having lots of photos to go by, good communication with the seller, and an accurate description that matches the photos. If you need to see more, and the seller is not responsive, move on.

I have bought close to 100 guitars, sight unseen, over the years using this method and have not gotten burned once. I have also sold maybe 85 guitars this way!

You can always buy from another LTG member, usually a safe bet.

 

[davidbeinct]

I’ve done really well on both ends of forum sales. I would put a wtb message here and be patient if I were you. I’ve had at least some level of unhappiness with the two guitars I’ve bought online, although I still own one of them.

 

[wileypickett]

The risks I'm willing to take are often affected by how much I want the guitar in question!

 

[davismanLV]

I am not a brick and mortar store. I don't sell a lot of guitars. As Neal has said, shipping and insurance is high and you stand to lose a lot plus the increased risk of damage with the guitar traveling all over. I've only ever sold one guitar on Reverb. The guitar was "like new" and clearly and exhaustingly documented in photos. The reason I'm selling doesn't matter, but if I'm willing to let it go, I don't want it back. So I totally understand no returns, especially for something like "sound". That's what meetups and brick & mortar places are for. So sound isn't a reason to return, but condition and misrepresentation is. I've purchased two guitars online, but new and with a return policy. One of them is the one I sold on Reverb. These are just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[chazmo]

The risks I'm willing to take are often affected by how much I want the guitar in question!

I think this is very important and I agree completely with Glenn on it. E-Type, since you're looking for D-25s, I really would keep my risk level down to a minimum. If you can't find one now, you'll find one later. Having said that, I think Neal's comments ring true for just about every guitar I've bought or sold over the years. Satisfactory, direct communication with the buyer / seller is the absolute key for me.

 

[richardp69]

Even though a seller may say he has no return policy that doesn't mean he doesn't. If they sell you something not as advertised or if they say their guitar is in excellent condition or even very good and it turns out it needs significant work (like a neck reset) Reverb will typically side with the buyer. I've bought and sold hundres of guitars over the years and my experience has been really, really good. Most people are very honest. That being said, if a seller doesn't even respond to your questions then I personally, would never deal with them anyway, regardless of what they are selling or price. That's just unacceptable.

I am one of those Reverb sellers with a no returns policy just because it's been my experience there are more crappy and dis-honest buyers out there than there are sellers. That being said, if there is an issue with what I sell or if I miss something I will take it back 100% of the time. It's a PITA but one of the things I feel I need to do to keep a 100% positive feedback rating.

I've long ago gotten over feeling like I need to have a guitar in my hands before I'll buy it. That just doesn't work, especially when you live in an area like I do.

 

[fronobulax]

I derive comfort from a return policy but realistically there are good reasons not to offer one. There are Bad Buyer horror stories including buyers who return an item that is not the one they bought or not in the same condition. I think the key to safety is communicating with the seller and using a platform (or payment service) that provides some kind of buyer protection. Communications with the seller are key and you can certainly have a conversation before sale about returns. A key thing would be to establish that "I don't like it" or "it is not what was expected" are not reasons for return but "not as described" or "undisclosed significant flaws" might be.

 

[gjmalcyon]

Anyway. So what do you look for?

When and where possible I ask the seller to check the neck angle and send a photo, per the good ol' Frank Ford article on frets.com:

FRETS.COM

 

[E-Type]

When and where possible I ask the seller to check the neck angle and send a photo, per the good ol' Frank Ford article on frets.com:

FRETS.COM

Thanks, the Frets.com article was very useful.

Does anyone know how tall Guild bridges generally start off at? My Martin bridge is 3/8" tall.

 

[Cougar]

I cannot tell you how many Reverb sellers have a no return policy and also don't list detailed information about the action or bridge/saddle.....

Yeah, as a seller, I don't like offering a return policy. But I give an extensive and detailed description and put up a lot of photos. So now it's "returnable only if not as described." (Actually, I haven't been selling anything for a while, so you and I are saved all this! )

But yes, as a buyer, I've got to do the research, the homework, the math. I've got to message with the seller and check the "vital measurements." You should be prepared that a new purchase may need a setup, but not a neck reset unless pre-notified! In general, my online purchases have been super excellent acquisitions.

 

[davismanLV]

So I've only bought two guitars online. All other's were in a store and played before. The two I bought were new and they had a return policy. You take your chances and THATS THE PRICE YOU PAY FOR CONVENIENCE!! One was a total gem, it was BLUE which I think @txbumper57 knew I wanted and he found a crushed box on Sweetwater!!! I got like almost $400 off new on a limited edition Breedlove. What a dream!!



The other was also a Breedlove and @twocorgis found a sale at Springfield Music and I can't say how awesome they were!! Actually played it for me over the phone and then said, "We'll ship it tomorrow, what strings do you want on it because we'll ship it with new strings!!" Smart of them. A beautiful guitar.... holy moly.



I didn't return it because it takes a while, like almost a year, to realize that although it's an amazing guitar, I just didn't bond with it. So I got a great deal. I didn't return it. But I sold it on a little over a year later. Did I lose some money, sure. Did I really get to evaluate this amazing guitar, yeah. Did I feel like I got ripped off, no. It's just the cost of doing business this way. So I get that.

Some people want the guarantees of the brick and mortar, with online convenience with no cost to them. Doesn't work that way, unless you buy new. And even then you pay shipping for the convenience. So that's my lecture for the day. Buy new if you can. Used if you want, but if you don't like it, you may lose a bit of money, but how else are you gonna buy a guitar these days?? There are no new guitars in stores (USA built) to try. They're all spoken for. So the situation has changed. New times, new deals.

 

[wileypickett]

Not everything appreciates in value. No one expects to sell their car for what they paid for it, but a fair number of people feel like they should get back whatever they paid for their guitar.

Sometimes I've gotten lucky with my resales and sometimes not, but I've never felt bad about the guitars I sold for less than I paid. Considering the hours I put on my guitars, I figure I've more than gotten my money's worth.

 

[wileypickett]

I've long ago gotten over feeling like I need to have a guitar in my hands before I'll buy it. That just doesn't work, especially when you live in an area like I do.

I'm lucky living in a metropolitan area. I'd estimate that 80% of the instruments I've bought over the years I've found here in the Northeast via Craigslist ads, where I was able to check 'em out in person.

I've also bought a half dozen or so guitars from LTGers, and a few online, including one from overseas, that I was kind of nervous about. But every online purchase -- probably a dozen or so in 25 years? -- has worked out just fine. (In the few instances when something has been amiss -- usually an error in the ad descriptions -- sellers have been easy to deal with.)

I've only had two bad experiences and they were both as a seller, not a buyer, one on eBay and one (believe it or not!) here on LTG.

 

[E-Type]

Has anyone ever bought a vintage guitar from a distant GC? Looks like a 15 day return policy and I wouldn't feel as bad returning one to them (but I'd still feel kind of bad, I'm not suggesting I'd do it repeatedly).

Of course, I did email a question about one guitar and they called and left a message. I returned the call, leaving a message about wanting to know some action measurements and they never got back to me.

 

[fronobulax]

Has anyone ever bought a vintage guitar from a distant GC? Looks like a 15 day return policy and I wouldn't feel as bad returning one to them (but I'd still feel kind of bad, I'm not suggesting I'd do it repeatedly).

Of course, I did email a question about one guitar and they called and left a message. I returned the call, leaving a message about wanting to know some action measurements and they never got back to me.

Several people have purchased vintage instruments from remote GCs and evaluated them locally. The variable, over time, has been whether there is a non-refundable shipping charge associated with that. The return policies have varied, both across time and between "used" and "vintage" but it is a reassuring process for people who prefer not to commit before inspection.

GC tends to be pretty responsive, as returning your first call indicates. But lots of businesses don't play telephone tag well so I wouldn't hold it against GC. it is also possible that if the instrument sold or is in route to another store there's no point in calling you back. You will eventually see the absence on the website.

 

[davismanLV]

Their return policy on guitars is fairly liberal, but double check the 15 day thing on Vintage. I believe it's much, much shorter than that!! Like four days or so? Be careful.

 

[Brad Little]

I've bought/sold/traded several guitars with other LTGers with only good results. I think the only other used instruments I've bought on line have been from Elderly, so very likely to be as advertised.

 

[GAD]

Even though a seller may say he has no return policy that doesn't mean he doesn't. If they sell you something not as advertised or if they say their guitar is in excellent condition or even very good and it turns out it needs significant work (like a neck reset) Reverb will typically side with the buyer. I've bought and sold hundres of guitars over the years and my experience has been really, really good. Most people are very honest. That being said, if a seller doesn't even respond to your questions then I personally, would never deal with them anyway, regardless of what they are selling or price. That's just unacceptable.

I am one of those Reverb sellers with a no returns policy just because it's been my experience there are more crappy and dis-honest buyers out there than there are sellers. That being said, if there is an issue with what I sell or if I miss something I will take it back 100% of the time. It's a PITA but one of the things I feel I need to do to keep a 100% positive feedback rating.

I've long ago gotten over feeling like I need to have a guitar in my hands before I'll buy it. That just doesn't work, especially when you live in an area like I do.

This times a million.

 

[E-Type]

Their return policy on guitars is fairly liberal, but double check the 15 day thing on Vintage. I believe it's much, much shorter than that!! Like four days or so? Be careful.

You are correct, 3 days on vintage. I misread. Thanks!