Buying Guitars on E-Bay

[bvuille]

Hello,

I want to purchase a decent Guild 12 string, and it seems that there is a better selection at more affordable prices on E-Bay than at any of my local music shops. I'm a bit reluctant to buy a guitar sight unseen on E-Bay, but am tempted by the wide selection. Have many of you bought acoustic Guilds on E-Bay, and have you had any problems? I'd appreciate hearing about your experiences. Also, within a given model (F-412, for example), how much variation in sound and quality will there be from guitar to guitar made in the same year? How about from year to year and different factories, such as Westerly vs. Tacoma vs. Corona made instruments? Is there really a big difference, or is this just something that the hard-core enthusiasts worry about? Thanks!

-Brian

 

[Qvart]

I'd appreciate hearing about your experiences. Also, within a given model (F-412, for example), how much variation in sound and quality will there be from guitar to guitar made in the same year? How about from year to year and different factories, such as Westerly vs. Tacoma vs. Corona made instruments? Is there really a big difference, or is this just something that the hard-core enthusiasts worry about? Thanks! -Brian

Uh oh, you don't know what a can of worms you just opened with these questions!

I'm not the one to provide you with any insights (I tend to slum it in the solid body forum), but I imagine that if your post hadn't gone up at such a wee hour you'd have quite a few responses by now. You're in the right place!

Good luck!

 

[taabru45]

Well here are a couple worth considering, especially if you like blue, and that maple sound Steffan
http://cgi.ebay.com/GUILD-JF65-12-ACOUS ... RCH:US:101
http://columbus.craigslist.org/msg/1103698075.html

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Brian and welcome; saying that your questions are overly broad doesn't quite do them justice but I'll try some answers and wish you well.

Nearly everyone here has bought - and many have sold - guitars on eBay. Some members have had problems, others haven't. On the negative side, it's usually a function of seller misrepresentation, not carefully considering the pics and the seller, impulse buying (paying too much), shipping problems, and crappy luck.

Hoboken/Westerly/Corona/Tacoma: Some variance between the Hobokens and Westerlys because the tooling brought from Hoboken was phased out / replaced. But the variance isn't a better/worse comparison, the models just aren't exactly the same. Because Fender didn't relocate long-term Guild craftspeople to Corona, there were QA/QC issues. In fairness, for every one Corona that's proved unsatisfactory, there are dozens that are just fine but, in the eBay environment where you are buying without benefit of getting the guitar in your hands, the Corona's should be approached with more caution. That said, there are people here with Coronas who are very pleased with them.

If you wish, you can post eBay links and ask for comments .. getting advice on the magic 'what is this guitar worth' question is a little tougher. In any event, welcome again and good luck! CJ

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Brian,
Some things that I would consider with ebay.
Only buy if there is a return option.
Older 12 string guitars have a high probability of either needing a neck re-set, or of having had a neck re-set.
If it were me buying blind, I would stay with a newer guitar like one from 1990 or newer.
You might get lucky and have someone from here point you to a good 12 string.
Good luck with your search and I hope that you find a good one,
TMG.

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome.

You name it, good or bad, and it has probably happened on eBay to someone here. The best bet would be to post a listing and ask what people think. We'll study the pictures, study the buyer's feedback and offer opinions.

I have only bought one guitar off eBay and I have to confess that I regret not posting it here for discussion first. I'm happy with the guitar but there were a few dings that looked worse in person and there is a nagging feeling that if I trusted people for advice I would have gotten more for my money. I trust people here now

 

[GardMan]

I have bought several guitars and sold one on eBay. Bought another via internet/GBase from Jay Pilzer @ New Hope Guitars. I have only returned one... a flat-backed D-25 that was my first (and almost last) eBay experience. Came with a split and poorly shaved bridge (didn't show in the photos), split tailblock, and reeked of tobacco smoke. Given its conditin (and helped by the sellers need for a good online rep), I managed full refund including one way shipping (seller was very apologetic and agreeable). That taught me to ask LOTs of questions... including about odors.

Three others have arrived w/o issues... just as described. Two have been acceptable, but arrived with unexpected issues of various degrees, and both I asked for a modest rebate from the seller (again, sellers were very understanding and helpful).

My selling experience went smoothly... except I underpriced my BIN a bit too much. Made for a quick sale, tho'.

So my advice... post here and ask for experienced advice. Ask the seller tons of questions... action, any splits cracks, any other hidden issues or past repairs, any objectionable odors. Then, only bid as high as you are willing to pay. Of the four eBay Guilds I have now, two were quite good deals, and two I might have paid a bit too much for... driven by overwhelming GAS (but one of those has become my main player... so it was worth it to me).
Dave

 

[killdeer43]

Brian,

I've purchased a total of 15 guitars on eBay in the past 3 years and I have no valid complaints. Most of the purchases have been exactly as advertised and three of the Guilds that I acquired have come to me in almost-mint condition.
EBay provides a great shopping venue for those of us who suffer from the incurable symptoms of GAS. It's like our own 24/7 guitar- porn channel. My only advice (FWIW) is to really study the listings and all the pics, and ask lots of questions. Even though I've tried in the past to set a limit for myself, I've been caught up in the process (GAS fever) a couple of times and exceeded it. But when I look at/play my eBay-purchased, mint condition D-25M, I can only smile

Cheers,
Joe

 

[jp]

Hi Brian,

I've learned that the key to success with eBay is asking the right questions. The sellers ad as well as responses to your questions are all that you have on which to base your judgment, and you should examine all details thoroughly, just as if you were standing in front of a seller with the guitar in your hand. I also think that most trustworthy sellers have learned that the buyers with serious questions are not just tire kickers, and thus deserve real attention. In reality the virtual shopping scenario isn't so different from a brick and mortar shopping experience. Bad experiences with a rude or unresponsive seller should give you enough clues as to whether you should trust the ad description and go through with the purchase.

Some tips:
-- Ask all the questions you need to ensure that you are as informed as possible. (any structural issues, cracks, repairs, finish issues, major dings and dents, action, fret wear, neck isues, etc.)
-- Standard questions as with any purchase (why are you selling, are you original owner, serial number, any replaced parts, original hard shell case, etc.)
-- Don't be afraid to ask for specific pictures. (close up of action at the 12th fret, shot down the neck from headstock, shot up the neck from bridge, close up of frets 1-5)

Many conscientious and trustworthy sellers often include most of this information in their ad. Despite my rigorous approach to buying, I still have gotten burned a few times. On the other hand, I've also been pleasantly surprised with purchases from sellers who seemed like washouts, with less than stellar communication. Caveat emptor still applies, but after the first few purchases, you'll get the drill. It surely helps sharpen your consumer skills.

 

[shepke]

All the advice here is great. I'd just like to add one thing. I've purchased five guitars on eBay in the last few years, including my 1974 Guild F 112. I bought it from a guy who had great feedback and several thousand sales under his belt, including a lot of nice guitars. He seemed to know his stuff when I asked questions and I decided to go for it. When the guitar arrived, I immediately noticed that it moving around a little in the cheap soft shell case and could have been packed a little better. When I opened it up I found that the fretboard was flapping loose up to the 6th fret (the old glue had just given out). AHHHHH! I contacted him and he swore that it left his hands in good shape. I went to look at the photos of the guitar on eBay (which included several good shots of the neck) to see if there was any indication of a loose fretboard. None. He was willing to take the guitar back and refund (the guitar was insured), but I would have to pay return shipping.

Seeing that, otherwise, the guitar was fine structurally, and since I have some experience in guitar repair, I decided to fix it myself. The biggest problem was that I had to spend a couple of hours carefully cleaning the old glue off, preparing the surfaces, and then gluing and clamping. I would much rather have just tuned it up and enjoyed the glorious sound of a vintage Guild 12 string. Instead I had to stare at it for 24 hours like it was a sick child it traction, praying to the God of guitars (Orpheus?) that everything would be OK. The next day I strung it up, tuned it and, Voila, a great guitar. The repair was almost invisible except for a little chipped lacquer at the seam from when it originally came apart.

The moral of this story is that there are a lot of variables when you ship an old guitar. If the F 112 had been better packed in its case perhaps this might never have happened. On the other hand, if the glue was getting brittle on the neck (for whatever reason) the fretboard might well have come up at some point anyway. Shipping old guitars is always a dicey proposition. The prices on eBay are great, but there is always some uncertainty.

 

[geoguy]

Well, I'm currently trying to purchase a guitar on ebay, we'll see how this one goes. Last two attempts have ended with someone else placing the winning bid (their first bid of the auction) within the auction's last 15 seconds! Both times their last-minute bids were comparable to retail price in a store. If I'm going to pay retail prices I would generally prefer to try the guitar before I buy it, unless I was VERY comfortable with the seller & the instrument. I would suggest having a firm sense of the most you are willing to pay for an auctioned guitar, & sticking to it.

I've purchased two other guitars via ebay, sort of. One of them was also listed for sale elsewhere. After exchanging a couple email notes with that seller, & satisfying myself that both the guitar & seller were satisfactory, I gave him a call, we chatted awhile, & settled on a price outside of ebay (I guess it was alright to do that; he stated in his ebay ad that he reserved the right to pull that auction since it was also advertised elsewhere).

My second almost-ebay purchase was via an ebay seller who turned out to be only 15 minutes from my home. I went to his place to check out the listed guitar . . . didn't like that one, but did buy a different guitar he was also selling. In that case trying before buying proved very useful.

With both of those purchases I felt I was doing business with a first-rate individual, & was actually glad to make their acquaintance.

I strongly agree with asking questions & possibly requesting more photos than are included in the ad, to help assure that it is an instrument you wish to purchase.

Good luck . . . 8)

- Mark

 

[Brad Little]

I've purchased a number of guitars on eBay, usually in the low end of pricing. For a while I bid on almost any classical under $100 that I was familiar with and thought would be a bargain-actually got several that way. The only guitars I was disappointed with were a Harmony Sovereign that is going to need a neck reset (still, at $125 probably a bargain even after I get it done) and a $900 Chet Atkins CE that was cosmetically poorer than it appeared in the pics. I've never thought that a guitar was misrepresented enough to warrant a complaint, so I can't speak for the Paypal backup on bad purchases.

Brad

 

[capnjuan]

Well, I'm currently trying to purchase a guitar on ebay, we'll see how this one goes. Last two attempts have ended with someone else placing the winning bid (their first bid of the auction) within the auction's last 15 seconds! Both times their last-minute bids were comparable to retail price in a store.

Hi Mark; maybe you were beaten out by a sniper; more on the subject Here in this LTG thread. Considering how many people are watching the same guitar you are, your chances of getting a bargain (def: paying less than what a guitar would normally be worth) are slim. As it turns out and if there is a sniper lying in the weeds, your chances of even paying near-retail are also diminished. J

 

[john_kidder]

I've bought and sold a quite a few guitars on eBay, with generally good results, but some serious messed-up buys as well.

My best buys have come, almost with exception, from seeing a listing early with an attractive Buy-it-now price and hitting the button quickly. Others from overseas listings that seem often to go under the radar of US buyers (my excellent Nightbird for $860 for example), and, recently, two from Craiglist first identified by keen-eyed watchers on this board (F65-CE for $400, DV-73 at $1500).

My worst buys have some, almost without exception, from seeing a listing early with an attractive Buy-it-now price and hitting the button quickly. Suggestion - if you have any doubts about a potential score, post it here - there are several LTGers with remarkably sharp eyes (and maybe some good photo software?) and remarkably cynical minds who have detected and reported on flaws and mis-statements that had totally escaped me. Had I been more careful, not quite so eager, and had I sought sound advice from the great folks on this board I would have avoided a couple of bad burns.

So, generally good experiences, far too much time spent watching the listings, and I have some wonderful guitars now. Time to stop.

Capnjuan is right on, though - eBay now defines the market pricing, and the real scoop of a valuable instrument offered at a low price by an ignorant seller is more and more rare. Retail stores are higher because you get to play and inspect the instrument, but the internet is the market now. Rather than seeing eBay prices as a discount from the market, I think that the store prices now add a substantial premium to the market. And even that premium is being eroded, as more and more internet sellers get their disclosures up to a pro level, and offer no-cost returns when asked.

The economic theory would say (and heaven knows that these days we're all seeing how smart economists have been) that a retail market adds value, and hence a premium price, when the seller has knowledge that's not generally available or has privileged access to differentiated non-commodity products, and when the seller can offer the potential buyer more certainty and less risk in the purchase. A point-to-point market like eBay sets a lower market value for the same items because the buyer takes more risk, because the knowledge of the seller is now made widely available to all, and because the access to the product is now the same worldwide. So, as the point-to-point market becomes more efficient at reducing the buyer's risk, making knowledge more easily available, and bringing more products on line, the additional value offered by the fixed-location retailer is diminished.

I'd love to hear Bing's and Jay's opinion on all this?

 

[jp]

Capnjuan is right on, though - eBay now defines the market pricing, and the real scoop of a valuable instrument offered at a low price by an ignorant seller is more and more rare.

This is very true. Let us not ignore the fact that independent sellers, in classifieds, i.e., craigslist, use eBay selling prices as the gauge of current street value for items. How many times have we read on craigslist, "I've seen these selling on eBay for ----"? (. . .and might I add, too often misquoting auction BIN prices as sold item prices. . .)

Brian,
One thing I forgot to mention after reading shepke's reply. . . I always ask the seller if they know how to pack a guitar, always send them links to sites about how to properly pack a guitar, and always offer suggestions on how I think they should pack a guitar!

 

[killdeer43]

Brian,
One thing I forgot to mention after reading shepke's reply. . . I always ask the seller if they know how to pack a guitar, always send them links to sites about how to properly pack a guitar, and always offer suggestions on how I think they should pack a guitar!

I also ask them to loosen the strings for good measure. :!:

Joe

 

[cjd-player]

Hello,

I want to purchase a decent Guild 12 string, ... how much variation in sound and quality will there be from guitar to guitar made in the same year? ... Is there really a big difference, or is this just something that the hard-core enthusiasts worry about? Thanks!

-Brian

Most of the answers above seem to have focused on the transaction details / seller integrity. I think that the answer to the question above is yes. There will be differences in tone; each guitar sounds somewhat different. When I was shopping for my D-55, I played about 5 ... three in one store in one visit. While they were all similar, each had a unique voice.

So that is definitely a risk when buying without being able to play the guitar first. But that is true whether you buy on e-bay, or from a reputable on-line retailer. With a retailer, you usually have the option of a return if you just can't bond with the tone of the guitar. With an ebay sale, you're kind of stuck with it.

Personally, I hate buying a guitar without playing it first. I've done it, but there is always a risk that you won't like the tone. I've just recently purchased one off of e-bay because the model is no longer manuufactured. The transaction went fine, but the tone of the guitar has been a bit of a surprize. Not the seller's fault in any way. I'm just not sure that I want to keep it. However, I was aware of that risk before I purchased it, and knew that reselling it was an option.

I would say that if you're not willing to face the possibility of having to resell it, then avoid e-bay. Pay a bit more to buy a guitar that you can play first.

 

[shepke]

In response to jp and joe - yes, the dealer loosened up the strings and the guitar was packed in a new commercial guitar-sized heavy duty cardboard box with foam peanuts and bubble wrap. As I said before, the guitar seemed a little loose in it's case, which was a no no, but otherwise everything looked kosher - especially after I established to my satisfaction that that the guy hadn't misrepresented the instrument in any way before shipping. My point is simply that it remains unclear to me where exactly to assign blame. It was an older guitar and there are always dangers associated with shipping older instruments. You are right, good packing is crucial, but the best laid plans...

 

[jp]

I also ask them to loosen the strings for good measure. :!:
Joe

I learned my lesson when I received a perfectly beautiful Les Paul in its HSC, no peanuts, no newspaper, no foam, stuffed into a cardboard box, also with no padding of any kind, with the strings which were once at full tension, keeping the snapped-off headstock from falling to the floor.

I cried idiocy on the seller's part, and he blamed UPS. I don't know how he did it, but he got reimbursement. I got heartache for the ruination of a perfectly good guitar. . . and a full refund.

Your situation is pretty singular shepke. What time of year did this happen? It wouldn't surprise me if perhaps drastic temperature changes may have been the culprit. Those cargo holds get very very cold, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if glue joints on a delicate wooden instrument would react poorly to a sudden change. And yes, who is to take responsibility for that? Kudos to you for saving it from disrepair and oblivion.

 

[bvuille]

Thanks so much for all your advice- this is a great forum. Several members suggested putting potential e-bay auctions up here for feedback before bidding. Here's a couple I'm considering:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290307115366

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260383292716



Does anyone have any thoughts on these two auctions? Also, do any of you have any information on the "cabernet" color scheme of the F412? Thanks, and have a great weekend!

-Brian