Bob Benedetto

[Synchro]

I recently re-watched a DVD I have about the life and work of Bob Benedetto. It reminded me that FMIC had hired Benedetto to help them improve the Artist Award and the Savoy. I wonder if those improvements endured or if they were left behind in Fender's final iteration of Guild production.

 

[cc_mac]

Savoy as in late 90s & early 2000s X150 and X150D?

 

[Synchro]

Savoy as in late 90s & early 2000s X150 and X150D?

I guess. There wasn't much info offered on the video.

 

[hansmoust]

I recently re-watched a DVD I have about the life and work of Bob Benedetto. It reminded me that FMIC had hired Benedetto to help them improve the Artist Award and the Savoy.

You're mixing up the 'Stuart' and the 'Savoy'! Bob Benedetto had nothing to do with the 'Savoy'.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[jimmyl51]

Guild followup

Hans, I don't know if you can comment on this new transition that Guild is going through but it is my personal opinion that we are now seeing the end of any really continuance of jazz guitar production on the part of Guild Guitars. Being that I lived in the part of Los Angeles County where Guild is making their move I just can't see Guild being able to obtain the kind of talent to make these guitars that they had on the East Coast of the USA.............just my opinion of course..........jim in Maine

 

[chazmo]

Jim, I'm not sure where you're going with that. What continuance? There were no Guild 'leccies for a long, long time before New Hartford introduced a few GSRs and then for the 60th anniv. Fender developed the Newark Street line... You might be interested to know that the bodies for some of the GSRs were not actually built on the east coast.

I'll just say this... if CMG is motivated to do it, Jim, they'll figure it out. I do suspect it'll be a while, though.

 

[powerwagonjohn]

Maybe we can finally hear the whole story on the GSR bodies now that the ownership has changed. Or will we will have to wait for Vol. III from Hans?
Thanks John

 

[Synchro]

Cordoba has stated that they are planning to continue production of both acoustic and electric guitars in the US. They've also stated that they intend to continue with the imported models.

Ultimately, the marketplace will determine what is made. If there's a sufficient market for a given product there's a pretty good chance that it will be made.

The GSRs are a good example, there's a limited market, but by building limited production runs they were able to make it work. No one can afford to produce truly custom built instruments at this price point, but by having runs of about 20 guitars it made sense. In this case, the dealers probably played an additional role in that they committed to buying the GSR instruments, so Guild had a fairly quick payback for their investment.

As long as I've played guitar I've heard the same laments; they don't make them like they used to. IMHO, there are plenty of great instruments being made. The number of people in a position to own an Artist Award are always limited. Such guitars have never been made in great number. Unless big bands make a comeback and amplifiers fall from fashion there is little reason to expect that acoustically powerful guitars like the Artist Award will ever be in great demand.

 

[chazmo]

I'm going to make a caveat that I might have forgotten some stuff here, so please don't trust this as gospel. And, Hans may know more...

But the story I was asked not to discuss publicly in the past is that the first GSR electrics (Starfires, I think) were actually assembled -- in New Hartford, of course! -- from bodies in white (i.e., just a raw wood soundbox) that Donnie Wade had ordered years ago Guild was in Tacoma... or possibly even Corona timeframe, I don't know. I.e., they were sitting on a shelf somewhere in New Hartford and the guys there wanted to finish the job!

I believe these bodies in white actually originated in the far east, which is what I think the Fender folks didn't want made public. I think a number of people have heard this over time, but again don't necessarily trust what I'm saying here.

 

[guildman63]

Hans, I don't know if you can comment on this new transition that Guild is going through but it is my personal opinion that we are now seeing the end of any really continuance of jazz guitar production on the part of Guild Guitars. Being that I lived in the part of Los Angeles County where Guild is making their move I just can't see Guild being able to obtain the kind of talent to make these guitars that they had on the East Coast of the USA.............just my opinion of course..........jim in Maine

jim,

Your eternal optimism never ceases to amaze me! :hopelessness:

As chazmo said, if CMG is motivated to do it consider it done, and done well since Ren is there. And per synchro, the market will dictate what models are produced and in what quantities. There is no need to bury Guild jazz boxes when the ones that recently came out of NH were phenomenal, and the CMG/Guild partnership is just getting started. Just because they will be on the west coast doesn't mean quality craftsmen can't be recruited from elsewhere in the country, or world, for that matter...unless you know of a law that prohibits one not born and raised in So Ca from working there? :laughing: I'm really just busting your chops, but seriously, let's not jump to pessimistic conclusions when the ink on the contract between CMG and Guild is still in the pen.

 

[shihan]

I take exception to 2 points posted by Jim in Mane;
1. Oxnard is not in Los Angles county; it's in Ventura county.
2. Plenty of craftsmen (or women) would be glad to live by the Pacific Ocean and build guitars. Why not?
I'm not trying to start a fight or give Jim a hard time, just expressing my opinion.

 

[Synchro]

I would imagine that they could develop a workforce from local talent. Being a luthier is highly specialized, but a skilled woodworker could be assigned less critical tasks and be taught the finer points of the craft over time. I would think that workforce would be a minor problem if they want to ramp up production in Oxnard.

I don't want to be blindly optimistic, there are certainly things that could go wrong, but I'm not pessimistic at this point. I think that CMG intends to make the most of this purchase.

 

[Synchro]

I'm going to make a caveat that I might have forgotten some stuff here, so please don't trust this as gospel. And, Hans may know more...

But the story I was asked not to discuss publicly in the past is that the first GSR electrics (Starfires, I think) were actually assembled -- in New Hartford, of course! -- from bodies in white (i.e., just a raw wood soundbox) that Donnie Wade had ordered years ago Guild was in Tacoma... or possibly even Corona timeframe, I don't know. I.e., they were sitting on a shelf somewhere in New Hartford and the guys there wanted to finish the job!

I believe these bodies in white actually originated in the far east, which is what I think the Fender folks didn't want made public. I think a number of people have heard this over time, but again don't necessarily trust what I'm saying here.

I'd be interested in knowing for certain. Ultimately, I don't care if they were assembled on the moon and shipped to NH, it hey seemed to turn out OK.

 

[chazmo]

Wood might get a little too dry on the moon.

 

[guildman63]

Wood might get a little too dry on the moon.

But imagine how light those guitars would be! :witless:

 

[Synchro]

Wood might get a little too dry on the moon.

But imagine how light those guitars would be! :witless:

Almost as dry as AZ. I have a humidifier sized for an entire house parked under my guitar collection. It does make a difference.

 

[jimmyl51]

Dennis,

I actually grew up in the San Fernando Valley............the last time that I visited family in that part of the world and drove up to Ventura the traffic was so horrendous I just never distinguished between L.A. and Ventura County thats all................it is fine to go out and hire people that can build guitars however having seen first hand the Guild plant here on the East Coast I just don't believe that this new company will have the same talent pool that grew up with the same dedication and understanding of the old country that I saw in the workers that Guild had/has here in New England. Personally I find the whole thing a bit depressing as Guild was producing some incredible jazz guitars............jim in Maine

 

[shihan]

Jim, traffic in the SF valley is BAD. Living in Oxnard would not mean SFV traffic.
After last winter, I thought skilled luthiers would jump at the chance to move to a place where we wear shorts all winter. Ventura County is a great place to live. Im sure CMG can find talent. Let's give them a chance!

 

[powerwagonjohn]

I always suspected the bodies were Asian built, certain aspects of the build is Asian in design. I really doesn't bother me where my GSR Starfire was built, it is still a great guitar. I am a firm believer that any one anywhere with the skills and materials can build a great guitar. The fact the guitar was built in Asia(it would be nice to know where) and finished in NH does not diminish the guitar but is a reflection on Fender and there integrity. I understand why they didn't want to say where the whitewood bodies were made but that doesn't make it right. Same with the Korean built M-75 that were finished here and sold as USA made GSR models. But this is the Fender way. Same with Gibson and the Asian parts on there guitars, Ping bridge and tailpiece on my new ES-345. This is not a rant as I am at peace with the world and my guitars, it is only what is right as I see it.
Thanks John

 

[Synchro]

I have always suspected that the Gretsch Custom Shop operates in the same way. I've never sen it in print, but the models available from the Gretsch Custom Shop are suspiciously similar to the models made in Terada. My personal opinion regarding FMIC's Custom Shop(s) is that they are basically custom-finish shops with grossly inflated prices.

I've owned precisely one Custom Shop Fender and the QC was a joke. As shipped it was unplayable and required extensive setup before it was playable. I've never seen Standard series Fenders (made in Mexico) that were shipped with the problems this "Custom Shop" instrument had shipped with. I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born last night, and I can see a ripoff for what it is. Fender has used the concept of a Custom Shop as a profit builder for some time now. But I suspect that the distinction is artificially enhanced to maximum effect. When they built the 50th Anniversary Strats, ten years ago, there was all sorts of hoopla regarding the name of the luthier that was attached to any given Custom Shop 50th Anniversary Strat and examples built by certain luthiers moved much more quickly. It struck me as artifice. Were not talking about D'Angelico vs D'Aquisto vs Benedetto here. Were talking about guys that take a CNC body, apply the finish and bolt on the metal bits that turn a mass produced body into a finished product . . . but the customer base was trading in cachet based upon very little, if anything, in the way of solid fact. Somehow a C.S. Strat built by one name was automatically better than an otherwise identical C.S. Strat built by another name.

All that having been said, I am satisfied with my GSR T-400 and can't complain. If the body is a CNC product of some Asian factory I don't mind. I got a pretty decent guitar with a unique set of features (17", 2" deep, solid top, long scale) and the price was stiff, but not prohibitive. The features are very similar to what I had identified over forty years ago when I idealized the Byrdland, but shortly thereafter realized that I wanted a longer scale and that Gibson humbuckers were not to my liking. As little as a six months ago I was exploring avenues to obtain such an instrument without paying ridiculous prices. I had actually planned on buying a T-400 with next spring's tax refund, and, in effect, that's exactly what I have done. I saw the opportunity and I struck. Fortunately, this happened when I had a bit of cash around and it was relatively painless.