Bigsby model question. Need Bigsby help... Walter, et. al.?

kakerlak

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I have a one-off guitar, made by Mike Voltz, who later became some sort of R&B big-shot @ Gibson. Something about the way it sounds/feels, I keep reaching for a Bigsby, but it's not there :roll:

So I'm kind of itching to install one, but I'm not too sure what will fit best. The guitar is right at about 2" rim thickness. It had an ES-175-style pointy trapeze TP on it when I got it and I swapped it for one of the generic Byrdland-style ones a long time ago. So it's drilled for a full-depth hinge plate. Underneath that is a sloppy-ish 1/8" hole thru which the ground protrudes and it won't look very pretty with a TP that doesn't completely cover the butt end of it. It also has an already shallow break angle past the bridge, too, so I definitely need a Bigsby with a tension bar.

I've never been a Bigsby expert, but, from what I've just read online, looks like the B7 has the tension bar, but has a shallow hinge plate and the B6 has a long plate, but no tension bar. It looks like I can get a replacement long hinge plate for $16.50 thru eBay, then I could presumably get a B7 somewhere, grind off the hinge rivet, and swap plates, which I'd then have to reattach with either a machine screw and an acorn nut or some sort of rivet from god knows where. Is this feasible, madness, ??? Or was/is there a Bigsby that already has the long hinge plate and a tension roller?

Here's a few pics of the guitar, BTW. There a lot of little custom touches here and there. Construction is pretty unique, too. It's all carved mahogany and is fully hollow. The top is carved pretty thin on the edges, but the middle section is about 1" or so thick all the way down the center, extending maybe 1.5" wider than the string spread. It is also completely solid all the way across in the areas of the horns and under the end of the neck. So it's pretty stable and might have originally been meant to be constructed with a stop tail, as there's a pretty hexagonal piece of marquetry under the TP hinge plate (that's all goobered up and drilled thru for the ground and totally covered up by the TP anyway). When I got this guitar, there was a Gruhn letter w/ it that explained that it was an incomplete luthier-school project that Voltz acquired and finished. It had a real hodge-podge of parts on it when I first got it: mismatched pickups, gold screws throughout, gold bridge, but chrome TP and chrome Imperials (w/ gold screws). So who know how much it differs b/w current configuration and original intent.
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When I got my SFIII, the hinge pin was bent. :shock:

I was able to use a small, very small, straight end screwdriver and a block of wood as a hammer to tap the flanged side of the hinge pin in enough to push the pin out. I was able to straighten the pin in a vise and reinstall the pin, reflanging it with the ball end of a ballpeen hammer.

You might try that, if you can't come up with a replacement hingepin.
 

rcboals

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What a cool looking guitar, (I want it) I would put a B3 on her first to see and here is why. If it a hollow body the two screws on a B7 will be just screwing into the top of your guitar only, then you have a ugly cosmetic issue for the future if someone doesn't really like the Bigsby. I have Bigsbys on all my guitars and have installed several over the years. I can't play a guitar without a Bigsby. I would really be reluctant to screw holes in the top of that beautiful unique guitar you have. You might try a B3 with a roller bridge. The roller bridge not really needed to see if your angle will be good enough. I am 95% certain the string angle may very well be enough to work properly. Since we don't do dive bombs with a Bigsby it doesn't have to be much of an angle to work just fine. Back in the day a B3 was all they had for Les Pauls, Duo Jets etc. and the string angle was very minimal. The B3 would require no screw holes in the top of guitar. It would be my first try before screwing a B7 on. The B7 angle can be over kill especialy when it close to the bridge. You are right that baby needs a Bigsby but before you screw into the top at least try a B3 on it. You could send her to me and I'll do it of course you might not see your guitar again. :lol: .
 

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Something else that you might try. Look into a B3 Bigsby. It's short than a B7 and might be able to improve the break angle over the bridge. A B30 would be 90 bucks on ebay and depending on the screw pattern, might fit better.
 

rcboals

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Ok I have really thought about this. DON'T SCREW UP YOUR ONE OFF GUITAR BY SCREWING A B7 BIGSBY INTO IT A B3 will work fine I am now 100% sure. You could just sell her to me. I remembered these Guilds from years past. They were not very popular but just L@@K see any resemblance to yours? B3 B3 B3 B3 Go man Go.
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kakerlak

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Wow, thanks for all the replies!

If I was going for a non-tension roller model, I'd want a B6, rather than a B3, since the 3 has the short hinge plate, but I know what you mean about not drilling holes in the top.

I suspect I'm going to have to keep this bridge for now. I don't know what it is, but it's tune-o-matic-esque, but it adjusts via two maybe 1/4" slot-headed machine screws that thread into inserts pressed into the top.

As for break angle, I need to take some pics, I guess. It really is shallow. The strings don't pop out of the saddles, but you can really hear all the chimes, etc. going on behind the bridge when you play. Also, the current TP sits with the string mounting end just a hair above the top; it's almost lying on the top of the guitar.

Thanks for all the compliments, too! I don't think I'm giving up this guitar any time soon, so not too worried about extra holes, just want to make sure the current ones are covered on the butt end.

[EDIT] took some pics.

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The length of the Bigsby is shorter, that's what I was trying to say. If you saw Redland's guitar thread, well, I'm reposting a pic, because it's sweeeet.

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His Bigs is shorter lengthwise than a B6, probably getting a better break over the bridge.
 

kakerlak

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Default said:
The length of the Bigsby is shorter, that's what I was trying to say. If you saw Redland's guitar thread, well, I'm reposting a pic, because it's sweeeet.

HPIM6549.jpg


His Bigs is shorter lengthwise than a B6, probably getting a better break over the bridge.


Ok, yeah, I see what you're saying there and I could probably do the same hinge plate swap out I was contemplating w/ a B7. I'd thought about a short one providing similar/better break than the trapeze that's on there now.

This guitar being screwy, here's the new concern that would bring:

string length.

This guitar also has a too-shallow headstock break angle (go figure). To compensate, I like to wind the strings as far down the tuner posts as they'll go (to make the most outta what I got). The D and G, though, I can usually wind a complete string onto the guitar and still end up only half way down the post. So if I increase total string length with a shorter TP, I might be in trouble at the headstock.

Does anybody make extra long string sets? In nickel 10-52 gauge?

[EDIT] I did see Redland's thread, BTW and that guitar is just great!
 

hansmoust

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Hello kakerlak,

Looked at the close-up photos of the bridge. I'm quite familiar with that bridge which was one of the first reasonable quality tune-o-matic bridge replicas that became available from Japan. It's not a very high bridge. It's about 1/2" thick, so when I look at the photo you don't have a very high bridge to begin with.
Before you start doing any experiments just measure the bridge height right at the high-E string (distance between bottom of the string and top of the instrument). If it's 13/16" or more, it might work if you want to use a Bigsby B-3 or a B-6. If it's less than 3/4" you can forget about it. The actual arch of your top will have an influence as well but I do not expect it to be much different from the average electric archtop guitar.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

kakerlak

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hansmoust said:
Hello kakerlak,

Looked at the close-up photos of the bridge. I'm quite familiar with that bridge which was one of the first reasonable quality tune-o-matic bridge replicas that became available from Japan. It's not a very high bridge. It's about 1/2" thick, so when I look at the photo you don't have a very high bridge to begin with.
Before you start doing any experiments just measure the bridge height right at the high-E string (distance between bottom of the string and top of the instrument). If it's 13/16" or more, it might work if you want to use a Bigsby B-3 or a B-6. If it's less than 3/4" you can forget about it. The actual arch of your top will have an influence as well but I do not expect it to be much different from the average electric archtop guitar.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Ok, measured it. It's right at 5/8" for the hi-E. So looks like I'm back at my original assumption: that I need a B7, but with the full depth mounting plate. Guess if I end up doing this, I'll have to buy a B7 and then the replacement plate and get to tinkering.

I do wonder what difference it would make sonically. I assume that, with the pressure roller, a B7 will put some upward pull on the top once screwed down. And then, right past the upward pull, it'll put a downward pressure at the bridge. I'm confident the guitar is sturdy enough, but I wonder how much less it'll resonate with that extra torque on the top and with the weight of the Bigsby on it.

Question for Hans: If the current bridge proves problematic, do you know of any other aftermarkets that will fit these large-thread studs? Or that possibly have the same spread and could be drilled/filed out to accommodate them?

Thanks again, e'rybody!
 

hansmoust

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kakerlak said:
If the current bridge proves problematic, do you know of any other aftermarkets that will fit these large-thread studs? Or that possibly have the same spread and could be drilled/filed out to accommodate them?

Hello kakerlak,

Actually, there is one or at least there was one and it was used by Guild as well. It's the Gotoh model GE-103B, or to be more precise, the model GE-103B-T, which was used on the reissue of the Polara S-100 and the Starfire 4 from the late '90s. The GE-103B-T is the same bridge as the GE-103B, except that the last one uses the standard thin Gibson style tune-o-matic posts.

Here's a photo of the one that would work on your guitar:

http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/parts_detail.php?id=92

This bridge is a little different from what you have on your guitar now, but it may work out well for you.

1) It has a flatter radius. More like 14" as opposed to your current bridge, which has a 10" radius.

2) The string spacing is 52mm, which is pretty much the same as standard Gibson spacing. Your current bridge has a 50mm spacing.

I'm not sure if the Gotoh GE-103B-T is still part of the current Gotoh line. If you have trouble finding this bridge, just send me an e-mail and I should be able to help you out. I only have these bridges in Chrome though!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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