B Stock Guild Guitars

[idealassets]

In 2014 when New Hartford was closing the factory I was all over trying to obtain my dream guitar. I got the name of the dealer who was handling the sale here on LTG and called with my #1 through #5 choice of guitar models that I could use. Within a day after checking with the factory the dealer gave me availability and prices, but the models I wanted most were all "B stock", which surprised me. I have also heard of B stock guitars being sold after Corunna, CA and Tacoma, WA ceased production.

It may have been said before but I'm wondering: how can we determine if a guitar is a B stock? Are there any markings on the guitar? And what factories let out B stock guitars? This is in case I locate the exact guitar that I want but "being sold for a friend", or "it was my Dad's guitar" type of situation.

As in the case of so many of us I may be able to find room for that "just one more guitar", but really like to pay more to get top of the line at the time that it was produced.

Thank you,
Craig

 

[twocorgis]

In 2014 when New Hartford was closing the factory I was all over trying to obtain my dream guitar. I got the name of the dealer who was handling the sale here on LTG and called with my #1 through #5 choice of guitar models that I could use. Within a day after checking with the factory the dealer gave me availability and prices, but the models I wanted most were all "B stock", which surprised me. I have also heard of B stock guitars being sold after Corunna, CA and Tacoma, WA ceased production.

It may have been said before but I'm wondering: how can we determine if a guitar is a B stock? Are there any markings on the guitar? And what factories let out B stock guitars? This is in case I locate the exact guitar that I want but "being sold for a friend", or "it was my Dad's guitar" type of situation.

As in the case of so many of us I may be able to find room for that "just one more guitar", but really like to pay more to get top of the line at the time that it was produced.

Thank you,
Craig

Craig,

None of the New Hartford "B stock" that I've seen or owned are actually marked that way. The 14 Fret Orpheum Slope Shoulder that I have I'm certain would have been considered one due to the small finish flaw in the back, and some very faint bubbling at the neck join, but it's nowhere to be found on the guitar itself. I had a couple of other B stock instruments pass through here going to other people, and there was nothing on them like the "02" that was stamped on the Westerly seconds either. Hope this helps.

 

[fronobulax]

The term "B Stock" in reference to Guilds does not have a constant definition but varies with the time period of the stock in question and the individual using the term.

I'll make some statements about the use of the term in reference to New Hartford instruments and I fully expect a flurry of corrections. The most common use of the term "B Stock" that I am aware of refers to a new instrument that has no defects or flaws identified at the factory but is sold, at retail, with something less than a "lifetime" warranty from Guild (i.e. "the factory"). I think most such instruments had a two year warranty from the factory and/or the dealer. The point to be noted here is that after it has been sold at retail, if the instrument shows up in the used market there will be nothing that indicates it was B Stock.

The less common use of the term is for an instrument that has some blemish or defect identified at the factory. The factory decided to sell the instrument as B stock rather than correct the issue. According to people at the factory a B Stock instrument (which might better be called a "second") will only have a cosmetic flaw. If there is a mechanical or structural issue the policy was to fix it or send the guitar to the band saw. These "seconds" will usually have some kind of mark on the label and may also have been sold at retail with something less than the full warranty.

Note that to the best of my knowledge, New Hartford stock was either sold through the existing dealer network or retained by Guild. This is unlike the situation at other times when Guild closed factories.

 

[idealassets]

Thank you, the main thing I hoped to avoid was something like an "02" stamped inside the guitar at Westerly.

I forget who the dealer was that handled the New Hartford sales, but they did explain that these guitars "may have a minor flaw in the finish" at the time. As it worked out for my favorite guitar models I was just one of many that had in mind guitar models that had been snapped up already, or that were going fast.

 

[Neal]

New Hartford B Stock have a very small black "B" stamped on the label, usually just to the right of the Guild logo. And I do mean small.

I bought two of them, both terrific. I could not find a flaw in either.

Based on just my two experiences, I would not hesitate to buy a B stock Guild from New Hartford.

 

[txbumper57]

That small "B" that Neal speaks of is very hard to pick out if you are not looking for it. It looks almost like a spec of lint or a fuzzy on the label. There is a Huge Difference between a "B" stock New Hartford Guild and a "Factory Refurbished" Guild. The Factory Refurbished models were not repaired at Guild, They were sold to outside companies that "Refurbish" Guitars. These are the models you see with the "USED" stamp you see on the back of the headstock and Altered Serial Numbers. I have not seen any of the New Hartford models that wound up as "Factory Refurbished". There were a number of Corona and Tacoma made Guilds that wound up as Factory Refurbished but not any New Hartford models that I can remember. Every "B" stock New Hartford Guild that I have seen or played has been just as good as it's first run counterparts in tone and playability.

 

[adorshki]

The term "B Stock" in reference to Guilds does not have a constant definition but varies with the time period of the stock in question...I'll make some statements about the use of the term in reference to New Hartford instruments and I fully expect a flurry of corrections.

This time I'm backing you up, confirming your understanding is the same as mine.
Since Craig's asking about New Hartfords, the one thing I rememebr noting in the "clearance" posts here were that those (clearance) "B" stocks didn't come with warranty, even though apparently flawless.
My assumption is that it was once again a situation of "due to the price" and possibly also because as I understood it, Fender was liquidating that inventory and wasn't offering their warranty.
IN counterpoint it was either DapmDave or Gardman who had a an NH D40 that was a factory rep's traveling demo, classified as "B" stock for that reason, that DID have the limited time warranty and he even used it once.
Also, since the time of the clearance and now that Cordoba has their authorized dealers "re-enlisted", TXbumper has advised that Cordoba has stepped up and provided warranty on at least one new old stock instrument dating back to Corona even, with the proviso that the dealer had been and still was an authorized Guild dealer.
(Did I get that right, TX?, no snark intended!)

Note that to the best of my knowledge, New Hartford stock was either sold through the existing dealer network or retained by Guild. This is unlike the situation at other times when Guild closed factories.

Right, and I didn't even realize there was anything left over to retain until Chaz mentioned it recently.

 

[txbumper57]

Correctamundo AL! Full factory warranty on a 13 year old Brand new Guitar!

 

[adorshki]

Correctamundo AL! Full factory warranty on a 13 year old Brand new Guitar!

Thanks, just wanted to be sure remembered what their requirements were, in case Craig comes across a similar situation with an NH model that isn't B stock, and also becasue warranty's one of my pet topics, want to stay up-to-date on it..
So, @ Craig: If you do want a warranty best advice is to be sure to look for the "B" and r even check the s/n with Cordoba.
I think what happened is that while Fender was liquidating they didn't offer warranty on those specific "B" instruments and Cordoba at the time only guaranteed to honor warranty on New Hartford "A" stock".
I thought TX's Corona D55 was warranted for a different reason than what he explained after I mentioned it in another thread.
Because I thought he'd acquired the "notorious $8995.00 50th Anniversary D55" from Guitar Showcase I thought it was discretionary on CMG's part due to knowing the guitar had been in the possession of that dealer and properly stored for all those years, as opposed to being an upgrade of their stated policy at the time of the takeover.
He got his guitar about a year after the completion of Cordoba's takeover, "IIRC", and it wasn't that same D55, but he called 'em up specifically to ask if the guitar had a warranty, so apparently when they had the dealers "re-upped" they loosened up on what they would warrant from previous Fender locations.

 

[txbumper57]

My D55 50th Anniversary Brazilian RW was a First run Guitar (#10 of 50 made) that had been stored in the Basement of the music Store I purchased it from since 2002-2003 and never sold new. It was stored properly and sold to me as new, Not NOS or B stock. Before the purchase was completed I had the music store speak with Cordoba to make sure they were still a valid Guild Dealer and would honor the full warranty. This was in Early 2015. They were a current Cordoba dealer and a current Authorized Guild dealer so Cordoba Green lit the Full Factory Warranty before purchase. Even though the Guitar was made in Corona, the circumstances of the dealer being a Current Authorized Dealer along with the guitar being in their possession all that time and their relationship with Cordoba was what sealed the deal for the warranty approval. Definitely an Off the wall Exception of Circumstances but Cordoba still stepped up and honored it as a new First run instrument.

The way I understand the warranty works for New Hartford instruments sold after the Acquisition of Guild By Cordoba is this. If the guitar has been in the possession of the shop and not sold, and the shop is a Current Authorized Guild Dealer through Cordoba, The New Hartford instrument is entitled to a Full Factory Warranty from Cordoba through Guild. I just went through this not too long ago with my 000-12 fret Slothead RW 12 String Orpheum that I bought from a Guild Dealer in Salt Lake City. The Guitar had been there since before the Purchase of Guild by Cordoba. When I purchased it in January of this year I verified through the Store and even got Email and written confirmation from Guild in Oxnard that the guitar was entitled to full factory warranty. The soundhole label had fallen out of it and couldn't be found by the store but Guild cross referenced the serial number on the guitar which matched the paperwork with the guitar and approved Full Warranty. Not only did they approve full warranty but Guild is also sending me a Certified letter that the guitar was manufactured in New Hartford and as soon as they ramp up Orpheum production will send me a new soundhole label with all the info on it. That is going out of their way to make things right for the customer.

Basically if it is a New never sold New Hartford model and the store selling it is a current Authorized Guild Dealer you are entitled to a Full Factory warranty through Guild. I would contact Guild and also have the store contact Guild to verify this before finalizing the purchase to make sure.

TX

 

[fronobulax]

My dealer, who was and is, an authorized Guild dealer was concerned about the effect of the sale by FMIC to Cordoba on the warranty status of the stock. Cordoba said that they would honor the warranty on any Guilds currently in stock and sold as new. Cordoba did not qualify this statement by specifying a time or place of manufacture so this would presumably apply to any Guild made since FMIC acquired the brand and this would include new and previously unsold guitars made in Westerly, Corona, Tacoma, New Hartford, Mexico and China. This makes a lot of sense if Cordoba acquired Guild's warranty liability as well as its assets as part of the purchase. I suspect it is somewhat of a moot point because I'd guess the number of unsold, new Guilds that are still in the hands of a currently authorized dealer but were made in the USA before New Hartford is less than 100 which is small enough to handle on a case by case basis.

 

[adorshki]

The way I understand the warranty works for New Hartford instruments sold after the Acquisition of Guild By Cordoba is this. If the guitar has been in the possession of the shop and not sold, and the shop is a Current Authorized Guild Dealer through Cordoba, The New Hartford instrument is entitled to a Full Factory Warranty from Cordoba through Guild.

And that's exactly how I understood it when the sale was finalized as well.
The point being they only mentioned New Hartfords at the time.
Except for that liquidated "B" stock, which I suspect is at least partly why Guild-Cordoba wanted to verify the s/n of that Orpheum before ok'ing the warranty, and why checking with them on any current new unsold dealer inventory is a good idea, if you want the warranty.

 

[adorshki]

My dealer, who was and is, an authorized Guild dealer was concerned about the effect of the sale by FMIC to Cordoba on the warranty status of the stock. Cordoba said that they would honor the warranty on any Guilds currently in stock and sold as new. Cordoba did not qualify this statement by specifying a time or place of manufacture so this would presumably apply to any Guild made since FMIC acquired the brand and this would include new and previously unsold guitars made in Westerly, Corona, Tacoma, New Hartford, Mexico and China. This makes a lot of sense if Cordoba acquired Guild's warranty liability as well as its assets as part of the purchase.

I trust you and your source and that's the first time I can remember hearing that the warranty commitment was that "open-ended".

I suspect it is somewhat of a moot point because I'd guess the number of unsold, new Guilds that are still in the hands of a currently authorized dealer but were made in the USA before New Hartford is less than 100 which is small enough to handle on a case by case basis.

"Yep".

 

[idealassets]

I was asking about any Guild guitars made at any time that were seconds or B stock, and how to identify them. You all gave some great information to help out there.

Then on the matter of guitars under warrantee I used to have 3, but I unfortunately sold a 2007 Tacoma F50r that I bought NOS in 2012 still with a full warrantee. At the time Guild in New Hartford had a great website feature where you could enter your serial numbers and they had a link to your "collection" of each serial number and color image of each of your guitar models.

As for today it is great that Cordoba is maintaining the integrity of Guild guitars and warrantees, and that it will keep their reputation as an American icon. Its still a bit of a thrill to show up and play with a Guild and get comments on it. You know like that someone really liked the sound of it, or "are they still making them in Canada?", etc.

So far, so good.

 

[Neal]

FWIW, some of the Guild B stock from the last days at New Hartford were sold with partial warranties. My F-47R (the one with the inexplicable gold tuners) was one of them. Everything is covered except the finish. Which is also inexplicable, as it arrived without a scratch.

 

[gibsonjunkie]

I bought two B stock Guilds during the Last Days of New Hartford and was told I would have a full warranty (through Union Music).

 

[fronobulax]

I bought two B stock Guilds during the Last Days of New Hartford and was told I would have a full warranty (through Union Music).

To be clear, I am making a distinction between a warranty offered by the manufacturer/factory ("Guild") and one offered by the selling dealer. Indeed one of my defining characteristics of B Stock is that there is either no manufacturer's warranty at all or that the terms of the manufacturer's warranty are in some way reduced, compared to the standard warranty. (Lifetime vs. 5 years, for example).

So if Union Music goes out of business, you subsequently have a warranty claim and your lawyer compels Guild to honor it then my definition of B stock is busted. (I added "lawyer" and "compels" to indicate a legal obligation as opposed to a voluntary offering for good will purposes). Otherwise this is one more data point in support of the definition.

Tangentially, if no one goes out of business it does not really matter who offered the warranty and "B stock" is irrelevant in the used market unless a buyer is not capable of telling the difference between a factory observed defect and "mojo" and the buyer lacks the ability to assess the quality and suitability of a specific instrument.

 

[txbumper57]

And that's exactly how I understood it when the sale was finalized as well.
The point being they only mentioned New Hartfords at the time.
Except for that liquidated "B" stock, which I suspect is at least partly why Guild-Cordoba wanted to verify the s/n of that Orpheum before ok'ing the warranty, and why checking with them on any current new unsold dealer inventory is a good idea, if you want the warranty.

I did receive in writing from Cordoba and Fender that the only line of Guilds Cordoba were not responsible for Warranties on were the Arcos Series that was made in Mexico at Fender's Ensenada plant. Fender Retained the warranty responsibility for the Arcos series in the sale of Guild. So if you have an Arcos series warranty issue it would have to be taken up with Fender Not Cordoba.

TX

 

[adorshki]

FWIW, some of the Guild B stock from the last days at New Hartford were sold with partial warranties. My F-47R (the one with the inexplicable gold tuners) was one of them. Everything is covered except the finish. Which is also inexplicable, as it arrived without a scratch.

I've probably been guilty of implying all "B" stock was sold without warranty when NH closed.
It looks like timing was everything.
I just definitely recall one list that was put up here very late in the game that specified the "B" stock on that list would not have warranty. The prices of all the models on that list were like 50% retail list or less.
It would have been possible for a dealer to buy that stuff and offer their own warranty or over the course of time lose track of the fact that NH specifically excepted it from warranty.
(I think we saw one example of that already when somebody was shopping D50's recently)
That, coupled with the evidence offered that the "B" itself requires close scrutiny to even find, is why I suggest checking a questionable NOS New Hartford with Cordoba, because it appears they do have the listing of those un-warranted s/n's.

 

[adorshki]

I did receive in writing from Cordoba and Fender that the only line of Guilds Cordoba were not responsible for Warranties on were the Arcos Series that was made in Mexico at Fender's Ensenada plant. Fender Retained the warranty responsibility for the Arcos series in the sale of Guild. So if you have an Arcos series warranty issue it would have to be taken up with Fender Not Cordoba.
TX

Ah yes, Fender-Guild's always forgotten "other stepchild".... :biggrin-new:
The reminder is appropriate and thanks.