artist award pickups

[Chris Metcalfe]

Any other Artist Award owners have experience of changing the pickups? these pickups get a fairly bad rap in many circles, and I know some people change them out. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's done this, and with what results. My own view at the moment is that the pickup is OK ( certainly not great) for a floater - a bit thin on top, and certainly with poor string balance, but not unuseable with the right amp settings. I gather from a previous post that the pickups were designed to sound like DeArmonds, anyway, which might well account for the thinner sound. This is not Guild single coil as in Franz, it's far too polite for that.......

For anyone who's interested, these are humbuckers that are specially designed to sound like single-coils. They are made with a long bar magnet in the middle, surrounded by two humbucking air coils which each touch the bar magnet on one side only, which means that the pickup is humbucking, but only senses the sound from one single point, in the middle, like a single coil. The whole thing is then filled with what looks like solidified chicken soup, or worse. It measures about 4k resistance ( like a filtertron - again, thin-sounding) At the risk of being even more geekish, I can share with you all that these are almost exactly the same pups that were used on heritage jazz guitars - only the casing is different. Didn't one of the heritage founders work for guild at one time?

Anyway I'd like to hear anyone's experience, if anyone has any! I'd have much rather had a DeArmond on it, but the AA is otherwise such a great guitar that you put up with these details..and who is going to pay ebay dearmond prices? not me..
thanks
Chris

 

[guitarslinger]

I've had a number of AA's and loved them all. Of course my favorite pickup was the old DeArmond but those are now pretty hard to come by. I've installed a Gibson Johnny Smith which sounded great. Very great. I've also used Bartolini's and been very happy with the results. I had new pickguards cut for the changes in pickups so I'd always be able to go back to the original. I think I liked the JS best and it was the better choice to retain that look of the stock pickup. The Bartolini's are black and I didn't care for the look as much but it sounded great.

 

[AlohaJoe]

No AA, but I have a '47 Epi Triumph and a '48 Broadway and both now have DeArmonds. Not the expensive RC or 1100, but the more affordable (and still great sounding IMO) Guitar Mike.

Here are some options to consider, not cheap, but very nice with an excellent string to string balance. Scroll down for the real Kent Armstrong Johnny Smith floaters. These sound absolutely great to my ears.
http://www.archtop.com/ac_access.html#anchor46177042
Also, check out his 'sold' section for other options on AAs.

Joe would also be a good source for more info. I've known him for years and if you call him he'll be glad to help. Plenty of other interesting goodies on that page as well.

I made the mistake a few years back of trying to save $ by buying a cheaper imported version of the Kent Armstrong... it was OK for the price, but not as warm as I like. I ended up going back to the DeArmond. I never loved the Benedettos... great STS balance, but much more of what I would call a 'modern', somewhat thinner sound.

If you like a more vintage sound, you might even want to re-consider the DeA model that's appropriate (and would have been original) to the AA. I know they're pricey, but I've seen some going on the bay for half to two thirds of last year's prices. The current economy makes this a rough time for those who have to sell gear, but if you can buy there are a lot of bargains out there, and there is nothing on the market that really sounds quite like it.

 

[Chris Metcalfe]

Thanks guys
Currently I'm leaning towards the real KA adjustable single-coil - and as you say, probably a new guard - but I did have a quick look just now at ebay for dearmonds, despite what I said earlier. At the time of writing (6.30 UK time), there's a DA 1100 at about $700 with 2 hours to go; it will be interesting to see what it finally fetches. I do take the point about rarity, uniqueness and about prices maybe having come down, but I have to say $700+ would hurt a bit....one the other hand, I suppose, it is a market-based reflection of its utility/ desirability as a pickup.

Anyway I appreciate the input - thanks. I did look at the benedetto myself but decided against, because I have a suspicion that it's the same 'central bar magnet' design that the original pickup has.
I've emailed Archtop.com to ask about the KA pickup
cheers
Chris
ps if anyone is interested, there is a DeArmond copy pickup, called a Statler pickup, marketed by a Dutch luthier, for around 250 euros. I did consider that, but a respected player I know who had tried it said not to go for it.

 

[Chris Metcalfe]

..just a follow to the above... the dearmond 1100 stuck at $700 and failed to make its reserve price. I think this tends to substantiate the idea that the steam may be going out of ebay prices..hope so
chris

 

[GuildAAPlayer]

Chris, how's your search for a pickup going?

I've put a Benedetto S-6 floater on and like the tone so far. I've uploaded a song video to photobucket where you can check it out.
http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/ ... eJobim.flv

The song is "Red Blouse" by Jobim. Yes, it's a bit shakey in places as I'm still learning it. Just try to listen to the tone and ignore the rough spots!

This is a '92 Guild AA with Martin Marquis 0.13-0.56 strings. Using a 2.0mm Dunlop pick (that has a big impact on the tone, too). Still have most of the treble dialed out of my amp, but the signal path is from an Evans JE200 preamp output to the line input of my Creative X-Fi Platinum sound card.

The stock Guild pickup has more low freq resonance - I miss that, but the upper range is better balanced with the Benedetto.

The pickup sells in the $120 range and the Benedetto style ebony fingerrest was about $40. I put it on myself using the original bracket and screw location next to the neck so the Guild hardware can be quickly restored if ever desired. I might try to have a Guild style pickguard made for the Benedetto pickup if I decide to keep it on this guitar. (If any readers here have the talent to build such a pickguard, let's talk about a deal. My initial thought, because of the black S-6 pickup, would be to go with the later Guild Benedetto AA style guard.)

Another tip which I haven't tried yet is to replace the 500K ohm volume potentiometer with a 250K pot -- don't know how much effect this has but it's said to give a warmer tone.

George

 

[Chris Metcalfe]

George, thanks for the tip.

Nice tone you have there! Funnily enough, I'm using a 2mm pick and Evans amp, too. pick size really does make a difference. In any event, I have already fitted a handmade Kent Armstrong single coil from Joe Vinikow, which does a great job and is far superior to the original guild pickup, in my opinion ( that is, the original non -dearmond guild pickup) with twice the output. The KA pickup is a tiny P90 in its structure, with adjustable screws, whereas I think the benedetto is a centre pointed humbucker as described above - could be wrong about that, though. The KA has 2 taps, with the higher tap giving a very warm sound, which I like. Still, it sounds in the same ballpark as the sound you are getting, so.....

George, looking at the pu'p you have on there in your vid., doesn't your pickup have adjstable polepepieces? - it looks like it does - I didn't think the S6 was adjustable. Or maybe it's my eyes getting even worse..

I'm also going to try a dearmond 1100 pickup - Aloha Joe is right in that prices are now way down, although nowhere near where they should be!! For any pickup geeks, the three kinds of dearmond pickups all have different magnetic structures and different sounds; the guitar mic has 2 bar magnets, the 1000 has 6 small round magnets for each string, and - get this!!!-according to UK de'armond specialist Spencer Mumford, the 1100 pickup has a rubberised magnet that the polepieces thread into!!! Harry Dearmond was quite some inventor - if anyone's interested you can see most of the patent drawings for these pickups if you enter his name in ''Google patents'' ( a really interesting site - you can easily waste hours looking up various guitar-related inventions).

I'll post again when I get the De'A working.

Chris

 

[GuildAAPlayer]

George, looking at the pu'p you have on there in your vid., doesn't your pickup have adjstable polepepieces? - it looks like it does - I didn't think the S6 was adjustable. Or maybe it's my eyes getting even worse..
Chris

No, you're right. The S-6 does not have adjustable pole pieces. What you see in the video is a faint "Benedetto" logo which is scripted on the pickup cover in a dark gray color.

George

 

[AlohaJoe]

Nice playing! And the Benny sounds great!

 

[JazzWest]

I'm sure Joe at archtop.com has a good opinion, recommendation, he's a librarian of reference information on archtops! Anyway, my '62 A-350B (blonde) has the factory Dearmond 1100 (gold plated) w/adj pole pieces and it's very nice, so much I bought another Dearmond 1100 (back in the 90's when they were $200-$300) in case prices shot up and they did! It's too bad no one can reissue these, but guess supply/demand and tooling costs are the factors...

Here's another great option (ssssshhh my little secret).Do you ever see those imitation (Kent, Carlrad), Made in Japan, float Dearmond archtop pickups from the 60's? They sort of resemble the first generation Dearmond "Guitar Mic's". Well, you can grab those for about $1000 then send them to Lindy Fralin to retro fit his Jazz archtop pickup. A real "stealth" solution don't you think? I have a couple of them and was planning to do this. I will also post some pics of the Kent and Carlrad I have.

My most memorable archtop tone, setup was my '62 A-350 /Dearmond 1100 through my long departed late 60's brown/fawn tolex Guild Thunderbird amp.....

 

[Chris Metcalfe]

thanks for all the input guys
Well the dearmond 1100 I bought from the US ( yes, I gave in....) arrived yesterday. What was described as a p'up in ''good condition and working'' turned out to be DOA, with disintegrated insulation and covered in rust and green mould, probably after decades in a dump. After many hours of work I have managed to save the original coil and get it working --and it's a great, quite unique sound. Even allowing for the psychology ( you blow big bucks, so you want it to sound good) it sounds good; a quite soft attack, compared to the KA and probably the benedetto, but still cutting through. The secret of the sound really is in the rubber magnet!!!Apparently some other - brand dearmonds also had these; harmony, for one.

I might just post a new thread on the hazards of internet dearmond buying...but I need to wait to see if I'm going to get some money back first. You'll see what I mean if I post the before/ after pics.....

ps maybe I should have bought your spare 1100, jazzwest? I did think about the cheaper FHC pickup, but they have regular, not rubber, magnets. NB the dutch statler pickup IS a 1100 reissue, but not sounding the same apparently - different construction.
Chris