Aristocrat vs. Freshman question

[jazzman]

Hi everyone!
I've got a question for anyone here. Hans if you happen to read this you might know as well since you are also a luthier. I've got a '56 Aristocrat (it's in pieces) that I've been studying with the hopes of building replicas. The Aristocrat has a dovetailed neck, with the fingerboard extending directly onto the top of the body just like an acoustic or a les paul.
I recently saw a '58/'59 Freshman 3/4. The neck joint looks different. While the freshman does not have a true 'fingerboard extension' as on a proper archtop, it appears that there is a piece of wood under the finger board that extends onto the top as well, raising the fingerboard height.
Does anyone know if the neck of a freshman is still dovetailed? Is that infact a fingerboard extension or am I crazy and it's just a super thick fingerboard?
Any info that someone may have would help.
-Bobby Nelson

 

[Default]

Well, the usual procedure is that I throw out an answer that's horribly wrong, and then Hans comes along and gives the right one.

<waits>

 

[jazzman]

Well we'll wait for Hans to weigh in, but I'm open to hear your thoughts if you've seen the insides of a Freshman. One of my local guitar center stores (blah!) has had a 3/4 freshman for a couple years. They want $1399 for it, and it needs a neck reset, refret, electronic work.....it's a real project but they want top dollar. It's too bad!
-Bobby

 

[jazzman]

Okay this is interesting! I was looking below at a post about one of the members bidding on a late sixties Bluesbird/aristocrat. Hans posted some pics of his with the pickups out showing the block below the bridge. The pic was at such an angle that I could see that the fingerboard on this later example has the same fingerboard extension as the earlier freshman guitars.
Someone has to know how the necks were attached on these later examples.
Hans if you had pics of inside that bluesbird of yours pointing in the direction of the neck block, that would be most helpful!
-Bobby

 

[hansmoust]

Hello Bobby,

Sorry, didn't notice the thread earlier.

The M-75 and the M-65 both have dovetail neck joints.
On the outside the earlier versions look a bit different. Towards the end of the '50s a piece of wood was added under the fingerboard part that goes over the top to line up the gluing surface between the neck and the top of the guitar. This piece was initially more like a veneer and it would vary a bit in thickness from one instrument to the next.
Into the sixties this piece would become a little more substantial.
The M-75 Bluesbird 'reissues' from the late'60s were completely different. The fingerboard was much higher up and the filler piece had become a small block. In all case it was a separate piece of wood that was added.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[jazzman]

Thanks Hans,
So even on the "reissues" in the late sixties the necks had a dovetail joint?
For those that have an aristocrat/bluesbird, is there a preference between having the fingerboard more flush to the top, or raised up a bit? I'd actually think that having it raised up a bit would be a bit more comfortable playing-wise but I haven't played a late sixties version to know.