Are Corona Archtops As Iffy as Corona Flattops?

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

How I WISH I'd bought a Valencia

In Orange?

 

[coastie99]

How I WISH I'd bought a Valencia

In Orange?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[taabru45]

Maybe this is where the Corona, dissatisfaction originated. People sometimes complain about the finish when compared to a Westerly... well if they were 2 different finishes, and they had to re-educate themselves to the NC finish, wouldn't there be a little learning curve? The guys in Westerly had it down, and didn't have to change finish techniques. Just wondering. Are we comparing 2 different products, and wondering why they are different? :? Steffan

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Buy the whey, "Valencia" and "Orange" are two nice towns not far from Corona, which isn't the region's crowning glory.

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Do poly finishes lower resale value?

 

[chazmo]

Well I could be wrong but I'm sure that if it was sprayed here in the Peoples Republic of Calif. it is something other than nitro lacquer 'cause this place is highly restrictive on anything with VOCs in it. I was told by a local repairman that the stuff on Corona guitars is a polyurethane. One of my Corona made guitars has some buff throughs on the back where a prior owner tried to buff out some scratches before he shipped it to me. The repair guy says the oval burn marks are a sign of the poly finish. Now one thing that Fender Does do on some guitars is to ship them to their Ensenada Mexico plant and have them Sprayed with nitro and reassembled or set up here. That is how they get around the VOC issue. You can see that advertised on some current Fender models where they are trying to get the vintage look and want the grain to print through a little bit. Back when The Tacoma plant opened Vintage Guitar magazine did a story on the operation and mentioned a new finish they were using that I believe was some sort of uv curing lacquer similar to what Taylor uses. I have to wonder if they started using that finish in Corona since the majority of the Tacoma guitars I have seen and one of the Corona X-150s I sold had the finish melt under the peghead like taabru's guitar. Funny thing is that I have a couple guitars that hang on string swings all the time that I know are nitro and they have had no reaction problems. I have color sanded some of those smudged areas too and they don't sand like lacquer. The material is more gummy where lacquer is pretty hard after it's cured

Paddle,

I've assumed all along that my F-512 from Tacoma has a nitro finish. I don't know how to verify that. I don't doubt that Vintage Guitar printed what you said, but I think they may be wrong.

 

[chazmo]

Do poly finishes lower resale value?

Darryl, it doesn't seem to hurt Taylor any!

My take on the debate among the luthiers is that it is about the thickness of the application. Most low-end poly finishes are applied very thickly. Good protection for the guitar, but bad for tone. On the flip side, you have, say, French polish which can be applied very thinly, but doesn't protect a production guitar sufficiently. Nitrocellulose is easy to apply thinly and provides reasonable protection. Not as good as poly though!

In recent years, I think Taylor and others have found ways to apply poly without over-doing it. They use electrostatic charge and robotic sprayers to limit the overspray and just avoid waste. They also have a process with UV light that cures the finish in *minutes* rather than days. It's very impressive. That said, it's certainly a matter of opinion whether the sound of a guitar is impacted.

 

[chazmo]

I wonder if we could find something on Taylor's finish? Maybe they are calling that UV cured stuff nitrocellulose. Sort of like the catalysed acrylic lacquer. I don't know, just thinking it might be an explanation.

Nope, uh uh, Paddle... Taylor calls it UV-cured polyurethane. Nitrocellulose is indeed a VOC and there are definitely issues using that these days.

 

[adorshki]

Do poly finishes lower resale value?

HI Darryl these guys pretty much covered all the angles of THAT question:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.musi ... 63494fd9e1
I WILL say that I think the most important thing I saw in there was that nitro can be applied more thinly than anything else which could offer reasonable protection so for ultimate acoustic resonance that would be the ideal. I think for the guy who asked "wouldn't the flexibility of poly be better?", the answer would be "no" because you want hardness/thinness for resonance. If a drum skin was coated with rubber cement you know it would sound more muffled than if it was coated with spray paint, to make a crude comparison.
So I see Chazmo's saying the same while I'm trying to get this posted. Good on you Chaz!

 

[coastie99]

Buy the whey, "Valencia" and "Orange" are two nice towns not far from Corona, which isn't the region's crowning glory.

"Buy the whey ??

Cheez !!

 

[coastie99]

Maybe this is where the Corona, dissatisfaction originated. People sometimes complain about the finish when compared to a Westerly... well if they were 2 different finishes, and they had to re-educate themselves to the NC finish, wouldn't there be a little learning curve? The guys in Westerly had it down, and didn't have to change finish techniques. Just wondering. Are we comparing 2 different products, and wondering why they are different? :? Steffan

Corona DID have finish problems, and I assume that it was with NCL. A pretty fair number of seconds hit the market ...... some had substantial finish-cracks and crazing, and some, like my F47RCE, had tiny blemishes that were darn-near impossible to discern. I concluded from the finish "blemishes" on my guitar that Corona's QC must have been fairly stringent.

I've seen finishes on the other "G" manufacturer's guitars that have been a downright disgrace compared to my " B stock " F47R !!

I don't believe that I've ever read a criticism of Corona's build quality. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Corona - built guitar.

 

[adorshki]

Buy the whey, "Valencia" and "Orange" are two nice towns not far from Corona, which isn't the region's crowning glory.

"Buy the whey ??

Cheez !!

Why he asked if you wanted a "Valencia" in "Orange"... a TRIPLE PUN! (Valencia's a type of orange). But you're right that would be cheesy... :lol:

 

[adorshki]

Coastie says: "Corona DID have finish problems, and I assume that it was with NCL. A pretty fair number of seconds hit the market ...... some had substantial finish-cracks and crazing, and some, like my F47RCE, had tiny blemishes that were darn-near impossible to discern. I concluded from the finish "blemishes" on my guitar that Corona's QC must have been fairly stringent."

I guess I'm gonna have to go home and break out the ol' magnifying glass on "Richie" tonight...he was definitely NOT a "second"

 

[Paddlefoot]

At least he's not sitting around with his finger in his navel... :lol: (Another kind of orange for non citrus folks)
I'm reasonably certain of the info regarding the Tacoma finish process. I believe I also read that in Fender's Frontline publication too. That's one reason I don't think Fender is going to give up on Guild, they went out of their way to get VG to publish their story as well as something in a strictly Fender promo give away. I'd love to know the real reason the Tacoma operation shut down. The true side of these things sometimes doesn't come out for years and the PR side becomes urban legend. I mentioned in another post that most of what "everyone" knows about Harley Davidson is so far wrong you can't believe it. There is garbage we want to believe and truth we just don't want to hear sometimes.

 

[chazmo]

Even the current Guild web page (not that I trust it for much) talks about nitrocellulose lacquer, Paddle. I looked very closely at the spruce top of my F-512 (Tacoma) and it has that characteristic wavyness as lacquer gets absorbed into the grain lines. I would be *very* surprised if this was a poly finish, Paddle.

Can you locate the source of what has you convinced that it's something different than lacquer?

 

[chazmo]

Hmm... Interesting evidence in support of what you are saying, Paddle...

From the Tacoma guitar catalog (as it refers to their own instruments, not the Guilds):

All our 14, 28 and 55 Series
instruments feature an all-gloss fi nish.
We control the thickness of the fi nish
by applying the fi rst three coats by
hand, and use a UV fi nishing process
that accelerates the aging process.
Th at way, our instruments take on a
vintage look much sooner than lacquer
instruments

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Adhorshki,

From those discussions, poly should retard the sound of an acoustic, but make no difference on a solidbody. But what about things in the middle like hollow starfires? Apparently Guild put poly on those even before they left RI.

hf

 

[taabru45]

When I took my daughters older Larrivee in to the Larrivee factory in Vancouver, it had fallen off the wall and the top and back were cracked, I got it back but was really disappointed in the lousy work around the bridge etc..I went back told them that Jean wouldn't want people to see that as an example of his vintage work, or repair work, and that I had other people buy a Larrivee based on the tone and quality of that one...The long and the short of it, when I got it back it was pristine, just beautiful....and fully refinished. I may have had to pay more, forget, wasn't cheap but did the whole guitar, frets...remove fretboard, straighten neck....good now for a hundred years...They called me and said it would be a week, or a month or something because it had the old finish on it which they had to use, the new ones dried quickly but they gave me the impression that maybe you had to stick with what was on it...My question, Jazz got his guitar back from the Nashville Fender folks, with a refinish......what did they use......??? What happens to all of the old vintage guitars that get touched up or refinished??? Can and do they use NC over lacquer??? :? Steffan


If you plan to develop a full service guitar repair facility you will need be able to spray solvent-based nitrocellulose lacquer because most of the acoustic and electric guitars you'll see for repair are finished with it. French polishing is also very useful for most minor touch-ups on any finish.

I just found this informative page about the different finish types...very good info.l
http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/FinishOverview.htm

 

[Paddlefoot]

OK, as I understand it. The Tacoma built Guilds have the uv cured finish which I believe was meant to mimic the thin hard composition of lacquer. I agree that it looks very much like a thin NCL finish as you do see the "print"of the wood grain through it. I do like the sound of most of the Tacoma Guilds I have heard so no concern there. Problem is that finish seems to be reactive to something in the padding of a string swing or it doesn't cure all the way through as well as it was thought to have. Most of the Tacoma Guilds I have seen had the hanger marks under the peghead. I have seen the hanger marks on a Corona Guild but most I have or have seen are really nicely finished and seem to be as durable as any known NCL finished guitar. Maybe I took in too much territory saying that Corona Guilds are polyurethane finished based on one of mine that seems to be finished in poly. Poly is difficult for repairmen as it needs to be sealed to allow the repair finish to stick over the dry poly coats. There are a few different ways to do this but basically it is a pain and should be avoided. Possibly both NCL and poly were in use at Corona as Fender still sends guitars to Mexico to be sprayed in NCL for the thin skin and some vintage models. The standard American Strats and Teles have a vinyl primer/undercoat on the wood and this is to stop the "printing" of the grain and act as a primer for the poly color coats. An enviro and production friendly finish. I guess we could speculate that Fender/Guild tried the uv finish here in Corona and that would account for the one X-150 sb I had that had the hanger melt marks on it but there is no evidence to support that, just speculation. It appears there is plenty of advertising to show that Fender did finish a significant number of guitars with NCL so I guess I would call that a plus for those instruments. I still like my Corona Guilds and would not hesitate to buy a nice specimen of any model that was built there.

 

[taabru45]

:? :? Well I guess that clears everything up. :? :? .
I guess If they are doing a repair, they'd have to do a light swab at the repair site to see what they have there. Maybe. possibly. :? I'm guessing its like oill and latex paint....they don't really do well if mismatched . Steffan