Always Forgive, Never Forget

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I don't know what to think about a person that is willing to sacrifice their own life in order to kill others. These people have been brain washed in my opinion.
You don't see their leaders killing them selves do you?
I feel for the misguided people that do this. In their minds, it's what is expected of them. Much like the Japanese pilots that crashed their planes into our ships, in WWII.
In this aspect, I agree with:
Always Forgive but Never Forget.
God Bless America.

 

[jte]

I don't know what to think about a person that is willing to sacrifice their own life in order to kill others. These people have been brain washed in my opinion.
You don't see their leaders killing them selves do you?
I feel for the misguided people that do this. In their minds, it's what is expected of them. Much like the Japanese pilots that crashed their planes into our ships, in WWII.
In this aspect, I agree with:
Always Forgive but Never Forget.
God Bless America.

But there's another way to look at these things. How committed are you to what you believe? It could be interpreted as Western arrogance that the US/English way of thought is superior to the Japanese culture's position regarding soldiers and surrender. If you haven't read the book "Flyboys" by James Bradley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyboys:_A ... of_Courage). It details some of the unintended consequences of Commodore Perry's defacto invasion of Tokyo harbor. Anyway, it's possible to say that we're brainwashed to believe that surrender when it's death or surrender is better than the Japanese way of sacrifice to the Emperor. And I think that's the problem with Lennon's song- he talks of imagining a world without conflict but it doesn't address who's to determine what IS right and preferable.

And painting an entire group with the failures of some who profess its teachings is part of the problem we've faced these last ten years. To assert that Christianity is not a religion of love because one has ascribed truly Christ-like ideals to the fomenters of the Crusades or the Klan based on their profession of being Christian without reference to how their actual motives and behavior squares with the message of Christ is a narrow minded as the post-9/11 attitude that Islam is a religion of hate and destruction based on the actions of some people who profess Islamic teachings.

Both religions (and most others) have a history of internal dialogue about these issues and have factions that believe that taking things out of context is valid. Bottom line is that while I like the sentiment of "Imagine" there are some real problems with the details- and I'm confident that Lennon felt the same way.

John

 

[adorshki]

And I think that's the problem with Lennon's song- he talks of imagining a world without conflict but it doesn't address who's to determine what IS right and preferable.

THAT's the real question, isn't it?
At least the US isn't trying to eradicate the populations of the countries we're in, with the intent of staying in place for ever. Also, we have a definitions of war crimes and even try our own war criminals.
AS for someone's comment about turning the other cheek, that may be fine on a personal individual level, but I wouldn't have that attitude if I, like the President of the US, had the responsibility for the safety of millions of innocent civilians. We may debate whether the means used to ensure that safety so far are justified, but I don't think any of us would debate the premise of being entitled to safety within our own borders. Or any other nation's basic right to the same.
It's the old "your freedom to wave your fist around stops at the end of my nose" argument.
I'm a big Lennon fan, he was a major influence on my worldview as a youth, and yet, musical heresy, "Imagine" actually turns me off for the most part. To me it was a musical wimp-out compared the truly incisive lyrics of songs like "Isolation" and "God" on the "Working Class Hero" album. But hey, those are my personal tastes..

Bottom line is that while I like the sentiment of "Imagine" there are some real problems with the details- and I'm confident that Lennon felt the same way.
John

Me too:
Isolation: "Just a boy and a little girl, trying to change the whole wide world" and "But then again, you're not to blame, you're just a human, a victim of the insane..."
God: "God is a concept by which we measure our pain"...."I just believe in me...and so dear friends, you'll just have to carry on. The dream is over."
To me that one's a clear piece of antidogmatic rage. H--ll, he even renounced his hero Elvis. :shock:
Between the two songs I see a pretty clear message that change has to start with one's self.
Seems to me that's a common thread in all religions.

 

[killdeer43]

Also, we have a definitions of war crimes and even try our own war criminals.

Really?
I've seen one out and about lately on talk shows promoting his new book. 8)

Joe

 

[Scratch]

Who's the war criminal you're referring to Joe?

 

[killdeer43]

Who's the war criminal you're referring to Joe?

No need to name names, Ken.

Joe

 

[adorshki]

Also, we have a definitions of war crimes and even try our own war criminals.

Really?
I've seen one out and about lately on talk shows promoting his new book. 8)
Joe

Hey, I didn't say the system was perfect, I just said we do it. 8)
Also not sure who you're talking about, but I suspect we're using different definitions of the term "war criminal" or "war crimes". And I'm sure neither one of us means any disprespect to the other, with our questions and observations. :wink:
In the interests of keeping things cool out here in the forum, may I respectfully ask for an answer to question of "who it is", via pm, simply because my curiosity is now aroused? Thanks. 8)

 

[FNG]

Who's the war criminal you're referring to Joe?

No need to name names, Ken.

Joe

Yep..you can't pour water on the bad guys face, but you can vaporize them with a missle from a Predator drone.

It's a crazy world!

 

[adorshki]

Yep..you can't pour water on the bad guys face, but you can vaporize them with a missle from a Predator drone.

When they're in the sights of drone, they can still fight back. Full irony intended. 8)

 

[Scratch]

Who's the war criminal you're referring to Joe?

No need to name names, Ken.

Joe

Getting close to the forbidden zone, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as I'm sure you intended to precede your comment with 'In my Opinion'... Though not the same as yours; I have opinions too...

 

[taabru45]

Imagine if we could learn to love one another...
You hold the key to love and fear......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw2ze1Iw ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVaqZaj ... re=related

 

[killdeer43]

Who's the war criminal you're referring to Joe?

No need to name names, Ken.

Joe

Getting close to the forbidden zone, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as I'm sure you intended to precede your comment with 'In my Opinion'... Though not the same as yours; I have opinions too...

I'm only entitled to state my own opinions, Ken, so there's really no need to preface my comments.
My comments are my opinion.

I like D'Addario EJ14 strings. They work really well for me.

Love you too, brother,
Joe

 

[fronobulax]

Since this is now the third time I have almost locked this thread, it is obvious that I waited too long. Lines were crossed on religion, politics and baiting the moderator (and others).