All Buyers of Old Guild Acoustics

West R Lee

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I think the D55 you played with white pins were probably bone, someone correct me if I'm wrong, I certainly have been before. I also think the tone of a guitar is very subjective, but I still stand by my statement that a harder material should transmit vibration more efficiently than a softer material.

West
 

dklsplace

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West, I keep going back to ebony pins. Somewhere I wrote up a bit of a review on the various pin materials I have experienced. May have been on the old forum.
 

guildzilla

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I think the vast majority of white pins you see, even on very good guitars, are plastic.

And, West, I wouldn't be one to propose any superior sound to ebony pins. I'd tend to speculate with Coastie that (any) pins offer a zero (or at best very marginal) differential advantage. Mainly, I just like the way they look with the ebony bridge on my guitar with their cute little pearl dots and all. I just wanted to clarify they are of wood.

As far as the acoustical issues go, I'd defer to Mr. P and others.
 

West R Lee

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Would you say it makes a difference in sound Don? And Zilla, I certainly understand that you might want black pins on a specific guitar for looks, I just think bone or tusq would have to transmit sound better than wood. Whether or not pins play a role in sound transmission, I really wouldn't have a clue, I would think if they did, it would be negligable.

West
 

guildzilla

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Also, West, I believe you will definitely see the advantages of the bone saddle that dklsplace is fixing up for you. I think you'll really hear that improvement.
 

West R Lee

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I think the one I sent Don was bone. You still there Don? I really do think all D55s come with either bone or tusq saddles, and have for many years.

West
 

Squawk

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I have found a noticeable difference with ebony pins - more mellow, less ping-y than plastic. More personal taste than anything.
 

dklsplace

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West R Lee said:
I think the one I sent Don was bone. You still there Don? I really do think all D55s come with either bone or tusq saddles, and have for many years.

West

Yes it was bone, but I don't think it was the original saddle.
 
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8) Don, can you make me a bone saddle for my Guild DV-52 & JF-65? Do you need my old saddles to match them or what? You can email me at my regular email if you want.

I do believe I might be able to make the inserts you asked about. Is the surface flat of concave?
 

Mr. P ~

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Jake The Loafer said:
:D Mr P, I'm in B'ham. Who do you use for your acoustic work? We should try & meet sometime & pick a bit.

Hey Jake,
Sorry I didn't see this post for so long.

My luthier is Jeff Glover, and he can be reached at A.B.Stephens Music in Huntsville (256-880-1234).

Living this close, it would be rediculous not to get together.

Send me a PM sometime.

Holiday travel and business travel have me locked in till after the new year, but I would love to meet you.
 
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bridge pins

This probably ought to be its own thread (though godknows it's been beaten to death in every guitar forum in the known universe), and it is unlikely to change anybody's opinion--but bridge pin material makes just about no detectable difference in a guitar's sound.

The principle coupling between the string and the top is accomplished by the saddle/bridge/bridge-plate system, with the pins serving simply to keep the string barrel from popping out of its place against the bridge plate. I suppose it's possible to damp some small proportion of the signal by using, say, rubber stoppers instead of wood, plastic, bone, ivory, or brass, but I'd make a non-trivial wager that no double-blind listening test could tell one traditional material from another. There are just too many other large variables in the signal chain--including how well-seated the saddle is in its slot, the size and material of the bridge plate, even what kind of glue is used to fasten the bridge and plate. The only professional recommendations for [insert favorite alternative material here] pins that I've seen come from people selling them. The builders I know don't see any acoustic reason to favor bone over plastic or whatever.

About ebony as a poor transmitter, by the way--why do you suppose so many builders use ebony for bridges and nuts? When's the last time you saw an ivory, bone, or brass bridge on an acoustic guitar? (Yeah, I know, ivory on 19th-century Martins.)

Let the flame-games begin.
 

West R Lee

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Interesting Russell,

Then why don't they make saddles and nuts out of rosewood or ebony? :wink:

West
 
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ebony & rosewood

Ebony is quite a common material for nuts--original equipment on my 1920 0-18, for example. Don't know why it doesn't show up in saddles--maybe the direction and intensity of the stresses make it unsuitable.

As for rosewood, my 1959 M30--Hans doubts that it's original, but I can't see any signs of a retrofit--

[img:400:153]http://www.cloudnet.com/~rletson/M30bridgeSM.JPG[/img]

Archtops also often have rosewood bridges.

My point about ebony bridge pins is that even if pin material were a factor, ebony would not be high on the list of bad-coupler materials.
 

Jeff

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Re: bridge pins

Russell Letson said:
I'd make a non-trivial wager that no double-blind listening test could tell one traditional material from another.
Let the flame-games begin.

Logically I'd have to agree, & further more, if the difference is significant why wouldn't the major Guitar manufacturers know & fit their guitars with the superior pins. Surely audio test equipment exists that could measure the differences if they exist.

Just the same, I managed to convince mysef there was a difference when skeptically I replaced the plastic pins on my DV 62 with Tusque. So much so I ordered another set for my CO 1, same thing, I am almost, pretty darned sure they do make a difference. I have heard brass pins make a more dramatic difference. ???

You know, I just thought of trying a set of ebony pins on my F 20. I wonder ??? Naaa, Mammoth Ivory is probably the proper material for the F 20.

Out of curiosity what do you consider a non trivial wager, just in case.
 
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